VW cheat emissions test with "defeat device"

[djos]

outside the USA there is no legal prohibition of functionalities appearing to some as 'defeat devices'
VW has not broken any laws elsewhere

If true it just re-enforces my complaint about other countries wanting the USA to further curb pollution.

This is b.s., Automotive Defeat devices of any kind are specifically illegal here in Australia too.

[Tommy Cookers]

outside the USA there is no legal prohibition of functionalities appearing to some as 'defeat devices'
VW has not broken any laws elsewhere

If true it just re-enforces my complaint about other countries wanting the USA to further curb pollution.

This is b.s., Automotive Defeat devices of any kind are specifically illegal here in Australia too.

it looks as if strad has quoted my words, which others have some time ago shown to be wrong wrt the 'DD' clause
ie Europe has had a 'DD' clause for years (although apparently weaker than the EPA one, as others have said)

despite this, and the absence of accusations re DDs in non-VW group engines ....
current (non-VW) engines are stated by EU Parliament commitee to be in normal running 5 times as emissive as in certification test
and we're told today that the agreed timetable (I posted on this weeks ago) for reducing this discrepancy is unacceptable to the EU P

how does the EPA regard this discrepancy ?
and, presumably these vehicles have been on sale in Australia ?

and, as ever in our 'big government' EU, their situation (of serial incompetence or worse) is apparently no-one's fault

[Just_a_fan]

When y'all stop clearing land by burning, when you stop cutting down rain forests, when the rest of the world stops all the insane BS,,then i'll care about pollution here.

The reality is that the US is the dirty man of the world on a per capita basis. Sure China chucks out more in total but they have over four times your population. The US has had a great run of luxury living since WW2 and, sadly, it isn't something that can go on indefinitely.

Perhaps China should call in all your debt. Then you'd know how the "Third World" feels when the US tells them to clean up first.

[djos]

Yes here in Australia vw and Audi are both going to get in serious trouble for just having a cheat device in software.

plus our consumer law means that they are also in trouble for misleading consumers over emissions claims etc. There is several huge class action lawsuits in progress now.

[Tommy Cookers]

today it has been announced that ......
a European Parliamentary committee will in co-operation with the European Commission ......

investigate the regulators of emissions testing !

[strad]

The reality is that the US is the dirty man of the world on a per capita basis

Per Capita That's funny.
Per Capita doesn't mean squat. We have done more to clean up pollution than just about any country on earth.
When China or India curb their pollution as much as we have I'll care. Go lean on them.
When you care about countries denuding the countryside and cutting down rain forests so they can plant soy beans then I'll listen.

[SiLo]

The reality is that the US is the dirty man of the world on a per capita basis

Per Capita That's funny.
Per Capita doesn't mean squat. We have done more to clean up pollution than just about any country on earth.
When China or India curb their pollution as much as we have I'll care. Go lean on them.
When you care about countries denuding the countryside and cutting down rain forests so they can plant soy beans then I'll listen.

I think the point isn't that you haven't tried to clean things up, its that you went for a long period unchecked and caused massive amount of pollution for the amount of people living there. Just because you're cleaning up now doesn't mean you have the right to just tell other countries to stop developing because it causes pollution.

Source: Attended an event on pollution recently and saw the figures for developed world pollution from way back when.
Hint: the stats are pretty damning really.

[pgfpro]

Oh great this thread is going to be a lost cause. VW knew what the rules were and cheated the system, but because the US is the bad bad country that invented the polluting automobile it should be just fine for VW to get away with cheating. What about VW competition that followed the rules and lost sells of there own cars because of a inferior MPG compared to VW?

[bdr529]

The reality is that the US is the dirty man of the world on a per capita basis

Per Capita That's funny.
Per Capita doesn't mean squat. We have done more to clean up pollution than just about any country on earth.
When China or India curb their pollution as much as we have I'll care. Go lean on them.
When you care about countries denuding the countryside and cutting down rain forests so they can plant soy beans then I'll listen.

I think the point isn't that you haven't tried to clean things up, its that you went for a long period unchecked and caused massive amount of pollution for the amount of people living there. Just because you're cleaning up now doesn't mean you have the right to just tell other countries to stop developing because it causes pollution.

Source: Attended an event on pollution recently and saw the figures for developed world pollution from way back when.
Hint: the stats are pretty damning really.

If that stats are that damming, you would think it's a good idea not to let some other country go down the wrong path again,
you know nip it in the bud now.
Your not going to stop them from developing, you just need those countries to stop using archaic methods to get there

[Just_a_fan]

The reality is that the US is the dirty man of the world on a per capita basis

Per Capita That's funny.
Per Capita doesn't mean squat. We have done more to clean up pollution than just about any country on earth.
When China or India curb their pollution as much as we have I'll care. Go lean on them.
When you care about countries denuding the countryside and cutting down rain forests so they can plant soy beans then I'll listen.

Yes, China and India are a problem (as is Australia because of their reliance on coal) no one denies that. The problem is that China and India are trying to be the US - if they succeed we'll all be breathing smog 24/7. But you lot still pump out more crap per person than anyone else and saying "everyone else must change before we will" doesn't help at all. Had to laugh at the irony of Obama claiming that the Paris summit successes were down to the US's leadership. That'll be the leadership that refuses to ratify any international treaties on climate then, will it?

[strad]

But you lot still pump out more crap per person than anyone else and saying "everyone else must change before we will" doesn't help at all. Had to laugh at the irony of Obama claiming that the Paris summit successes were down to the US's leadership.

Not lookin to get into some big ol fight BUT
As someone else said, Because we once polluted like crazy when no one knew better, does that mean we should ignore what countries that should know better, do today?
Ship breaking mean anything to you? BTW Any container ship pumps out (really nasty stuff) as much as all of LA in one day.
AND
While I have no use for Obama or the recent Paris climate summit who other than the U.S. led the way?
Tell me, who mandated smog devices on their cars first? Unleaded gas?

[bdr529]

[chip engineer]

Yes, China and India are a problem (as is Australia because of their reliance on coal) no one denies that. The problem is that China and India are trying to be the US - if they succeed we'll all be breathing smog 24/7. But you lot still pump out more crap per person than anyone else ...

If China becomes like the U.S., there will be very little smog, there or anywhere good emissions controls are used.
If you are talking about CO2, that does not cause smog. It does cause warming and plant fertilization. But the fertilization and a small amount of warming are good things, according to most scientific studies. It is only lots of additional CO2 from continuing unlimited fossil fuel burning that is likely to cause problems.

[strad]

Forget all the finger pointing for a minute and bear in mind that VW has admitted to cheating the tests with malice of forethought.
Such immoral premeditation makes it a crime in the first degree to my thinking and that, not which country pollutes the most, is the point.. That's a red hearing that diverts attention from the real crime.
These guys sat around in their plush corporate offices hatching this plot and forcing some engineer to find a way to make their scheme work. Then they sat around for years patting themselves on the back over what smart boys they were to find a way to circumvent the rules, pollution be damned.

[R_GoWin]

so an air flow straightener will fix nox emissions, together with a remap, I just can't figure out why they didn't include the magnets on the fuel rail, that align the molecules properly

I guess they think that people are this dumb nowdays

https://www.volkswagen-media-services.c ... h=aur4bDiS

and the say the 2.0 will just need a software update and it will not affect mileage or anything, if it was that easy why didn't they just do that from the start?

There is some material here which may go some way to explain how the Volkswagen fix works:

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/1 ... lly-works/