2016-2017 chassis and engine rules (proposed)

[Paul]

I don't think chassis and engine rules can really affect overtaking quality. Key to exciting overtaking is availability of faster strategies that put drivers in traffic. Basically, giving the slower car a chance to win the race from down the grid if they can overtake other drivers as fast as possible and not get stuck even for two laps. How that can be reliably achieved is another question. One way I feel would be tracks that have low pit-stop time loss. To keep safe speed limit that would require tracks with pit lane that cuts the track short. Then DRS needs to be removed not to make cars that don't pit sitting ducks and make staying out a viable strategy.

[FrukostScones]

Mr. E and Todt surely lost control.

Now refueling is back on the agenda... well I don't think it would make things worse.

But the real problems are those kneejerk reactions for 2017.

To make the cars look more agressive, wider cars, wider tyres, but now no wider bodywork, and it all slanted like on an A1GP

To make them faster (but Pirelli (Bernie E. ) not having the technology to cope), beamwing and other aero will give more
dirty air probably... overtaking will not gain apart from DRS moves maybe.

To make things more unpredictable more Cheesirelli tyre fun (and now a real Lottery too, 3 compounds and a DIN4 page of tyre rules for the Weekend)) yeah, already here for 2016.

To make the PU less efficient and more powerful and louder (and then give them only 3 PU s a year), make standard things that all are equal and less complicated, and in the end make them only less efficient.

To give all teams the same race winning engine, especially Red Bull.

[Ozan]

if they really want to make things better for racing, they should:

1-bring back refueling
2-remove the rule of 100kg/hour fuel
3-5 engines per car/year and rev limit up to 18k for better sound
4-wider body work
5-relax the rules on the rear of the car (ex:diffuser-beam wing-wastegate blown wings etc)
6-relax the rules on tyres, make things more unpredictable

[Henk]

if they really want to make things better for racing, they should:

1-bring back refueling
2-remove the rule of 100kg/hour fuel
3-5 engines per car/year and rev limit up to 18k for better sound
4-wider body work
5-relax the rules on the rear of the car (ex:diffuser-beam wing-wastegate blown wings etc)
6-relax the rules on tyres, make things more unpredictable

These rules would make the cars dangerously fast. Number 2 and 3 basically say unlimited power. Number 4 and 5 mean more corner speed thus having more extreme crashes. Everyone will already be running Monaco wings because the power is not a bottleneck anymore.

There needs to be some limit. I think number 2 is the best thing they came up with in the new rules. The rev limit used to be the cap is now turned into something more natural. I think f1 could be faster and louder but I also think the current rules are quite sensible. I also wonder if the 2017 proposal doesn't already make the cars dangerously fast. Looking at normal improvement within current regulations the teams might find more than 4 or 5 seconds.

[Pingguest]

Strategy and entertainment needs the right balance.
If a driver is going to drive slow, i am not in support of that. A Formula 1 race should be a sprint, not a jog.
If refueling is going to mean the driver is going to drive 25 qualifying laps then that's what i support. Real white knuckle balls to wall stuff. I think we had enough of the gentleman's car whisperer crap.

What makes a race interesting if it just sequence of qualifying laps? Not only should a driver be fast, but he should be clever as well. Alain Prost was not always the fastest, but won races by having found the best race strategy in terms of fuel and tire preservation.

[ringo]

That's boring to watch. The car and driver just needs to be going as fast as possible.
No such thing as a clever driver nowadays because he has the whole pit wall to tell him what to do and when to do it.
No driver today can find anything relating to fuel saving and tyre preservation as good as his pitwall.
In fact the preservation thing is boring anyway, and i don't want to see any more of it going forward. I think I've seen enough granny driving for the past couple years in formula1.

[godlameroso]

What effect is reintroducing the beam wing and lowering and widening the rear wing going to cause to the overall picture? Will it cause cars to understeer more in conjunction with the wider wheels and only slightly wider front wing? Seeing as floor dimensions won't really be changing, and only a slight change to diffuser height, probably to 2011 levels, what will the net aerodynamic effect be? Is the center of pressure going to be moved rearward?

[ringo]

I think the centre of pressure will remain. There are improvements with the front wing, and the improvements in the rear end act to increase downforce in the rear as well as the centre.

As for how the cars will behave; i believe that the working group has accepted that it is inevitable that it will be hard to follow in formula1 and that they might as well make the cars faster and harder to drive. Maybe they would have so much downforce that the loss in following another car should still allow the driver to keep it on the road?

[Pingguest]

That's boring to watch. The car and driver just needs to be going as fast as possible.
No such thing as a clever driver nowadays because he has the whole pit wall to tell him what to do and when to do it.

That is not an argument in favor of mid-race refueling, is it not? It is an argument in favor of banning pit-to-car telemetry. I find it rather contradictory that you do not want teams to interfere with the drivers' race on one hand and make teams to completely decide the drivers' race strategy on the other hand.

[dans79]

if they really want to make things better for racing, they should:

1-bring back refueling
2-remove the rule of 100kg/hour fuel
3-5 engines per car/year and rev limit up to 18k for better sound
4-wider body work
5-relax the rules on the rear of the car (ex:diffuser-beam wing-wastegate blown wings etc)
6-relax the rules on tyres, make things more unpredictable

They are do busy trying to cheapen the sport to care about that.

Honestly, this sport is run by a senile old man, who leads a bunch of morons.

[f1316]

I'd like to see a more controlled methodology for introducing new regulations: I.e. Do one thing at a time and isolate the effects to determine success.

I'd suggest you would first increase tyre width by the proposed amount; if this improves ability to follow then you then have definitive proof of the fact and can fine tune how much it might potentially need to be increased to improve further based on that data.

Now, in and of itself, that would probably also contribute a 1-2 sec reduction in lap times but the 5 second gain (if that does indeed matter) could be built from that solid foundation without one regulation change muddying the data from another.

I'd personally then suggest that further *mechanical* changes, rather than aerodynamic should be pursued (again, presumably an increase in mechanical grip helps following). Perhaps active suspension? Again, make no other changes for a season and assess what difference that makes.

If needs be, and if these mechanical changes make a significant difference to non-Drs overtakes, you can then start to add in slowly increasing aero freedom to further improve lap time.

[toraabe]

you forgot one wery important thing.
Groundeffect.
Ditch the flat floor, and let them design the floor themself and no limitations regarding the venturi tunnels.
Now we will talk cornering speed.

if they really want to make things better for racing, they should:

1-bring back refueling
2-remove the rule of 100kg/hour fuel
3-5 engines per car/year and rev limit up to 18k for better sound
4-wider body work
5-relax the rules on the rear of the car (ex:diffuser-beam wing-wastegate blown wings etc)
6-relax the rules on tyres, make things more unpredictable

They are do busy trying to cheapen the sport to care about that.

Honestly, this sport is run by a senile old man, who leads a bunch of morons.

[godlameroso]

These cars make most of their downforce from ground effect, if full ground effect was allowed the drivers would be wearing g-suits and canopy's would be mandatory. I think the current cars will improve by no more than a second from where they are if engines were frozen from now till 2020, a change is needed, and I completely agree that increasing mechanical grip will improve following and overtaking. The corners that make the biggest difference to lap time are the ones that require both aerodynamic grip and mechanical grip, in other words, mid speed corners. If you improve mechanical grip, you can make up for a lack of downforce.

[Gerhardsa]

These cars make most of their downforce from ground effect, if full ground effect was allowed the drivers would be wearing g-suits and canopy's would be mandatory. I think the current cars will improve by no more than a second from where they are if engines were frozen from now till 2020, a change is needed, and I completely agree that increasing mechanical grip will improve following and overtaking. The corners that make the biggest difference to lap time are the ones that require both aerodynamic grip and mechanical grip, in other words, mid speed corners. If you improve mechanical grip, you can make up for a lack of downforce.

I'm not convinced, and I'll tell you why...

Sure, Ground effect will bring more mechanical, but the aero grip from following a car will still be lost. Why? Because teams will always try and create as much aero df as possible(bar the drag factor), which in turn (the way the cars are designed over the last 15-20 years) creates dirty ineffective air for the guy behind, making following they guy in front closely, difficult to almost impossible.

SO in effect sure, you will have more grip from ground effect, but the same goes for the car in front, BUT you will still be losing tons of Aero downforce, which the car in front still has, meaning we are back to square one. Aero also needs to be addressed, and the effect of following needs to be somewhat nullified, or get close to it.

[hemichromis]

My problem with ground effect it that it seems to easy to run a kerb and damage the very low floor rendering ground effect useless.