Overbeeke Closed canopy f1 concept

[KingHamilton01]

I Hope they don't agree on this Halo concept for 2017, obviously the driver's safety is massively important so I am not questioning that. Perhaps they can agree that if this design get's signed off then they are open to it being improved from a look's point of view, as im sure F1 has said in the past it values the way F1 car's look? although I know the noses on the current cars could prove otherwise.

I am more in favour of this of this design on the lola car, but nothing been proposed like this as of yet is seem's.

http://www.lonestarspeedzone.com/topic/ ... er-safety/

[ScottB]

My impression of the desire for the 'halo' solution is that it doesn't require anything directly above the drivers head, so nothing in the way of an extraction after a crash. That Lola concept, while maybe being more visually appealing, looks like it could be potentially problematic after a crash?

[KingHamilton01]

I don't understand why they need to put anything above directly above the drivers head? I mean if the half cockpit like dome in front of the driver is strong and tall enough this would be safe enough to endure incidents ranging from tyres, springs(massa incident) and cars sliding over the top for example like spa(Hamilton) and Austria(Alonso) while not affecting driver exit incase of a fire. I don't make out to be any expert when it comes to this, sure well learn more about it as proposal's get put forward etc.

[i70q7m7ghw]

I agree, I don't think we need a 100% enclosure of the cockpit. The impacts we are trying to protect against will always be from an object heading towards the driver. I think something along the lines of the Lola concept, which could perhaps slide forward aid in exit form the car.

Something like this but higher and slightly more enclosed:

[FW17]

I hope people will stop mentioning fire


That mclaren type of concept would need a halo structure over it support and have any sort of strength. Thickness of the poly carbonate also would need to be about an inch thick

[Manoah2u]

I agree, I don't think we need a 100% enclosure of the cockpit. The impacts we are trying to protect against will always be from an object heading towards the driver. I think something along the lines of the Lola concept, which could perhaps slide forward aid in exit form the car.

Something like this but higher and slightly more enclosed:
http://revivalsportscars.com/wp-content ... 24x682.jpg

been proposing this since ages, paired with a thin strong support blade around where the front suspension sits to be able to exit the vehicle even upside down.

[Manoah2u]

I hope people will stop mentioning fire


That mclaren type of concept would need a halo structure over it support and have any sort of strength. Thickness of the poly carbonate also would need to be about an inch thick

3 times fully incorrect.

people wont stop mentioning fire as its a very potentially dangerous cause especially with the hybrid materials around them. or does it really need to happen that the next promising driver or any driver at all must end up in flames on live TV because of they can't get out due to 'head protection'.

second of all, no it does not need no halo structure. there are very very very strong transparent materials out there today that can take impressive impacts. the problem is costs.

and hell no it does not need to be an inch thick at all. not even half.

police riot shields [polycarbonate] are merely 3.5 mm thick and BULLETproof. given, their outer frame gives them the additional strenght, but seriously, 'atleast' an inch thick? come on now.

[ScottB]

I agree, I don't think we need a 100% enclosure of the cockpit. The impacts we are trying to protect against will always be from an object heading towards the driver. I think something along the lines of the Lola concept, which could perhaps slide forward aid in exit form the car.

Something like this but higher and slightly more enclosed:
http://revivalsportscars.com/wp-content ... 24x682.jpg

That doesn't look like it would be high enough to protect the driver from a Bianchi / Surtees / Massa type accident, and I'm not sure you could have what is effectively a windscreen high enough to do that without it having to become a major piece of the cars aerodynamics; it'd probably resemble the front of a fighter jet canopy, with an open section straight above the drivers head.

I'm assuming the drivers favour the halo, as there's no curved screen to potentially distort vision, and the teams will like it because it looks to have minimal impact on the aero...

[FW17]

I hope people will stop mentioning fire


That mclaren type of concept would need a halo structure over it support and have any sort of strength. Thickness of the poly carbonate also would need to be about an inch thick

3 times fully incorrect.

people wont stop mentioning fire as its a very potentially dangerous cause especially with the hybrid materials around them. or does it really need to happen that the next promising driver or any driver at all must end up in flames on live TV because of they can't get out due to 'head protection'.

second of all, no it does not need no halo structure. there are very very very strong transparent materials out there today that can take impressive impacts. the problem is costs.

and hell no it does not need to be an inch thick at all. not even half.

police riot shields [polycarbonate] are merely 3.5 mm thick and BULLETproof. given, their outer frame gives them the additional strenght, but seriously, 'atleast' an inch thick? come on now.

So how does fire enter a cockpit? It is like saying the driver of an F1 boat died because he drowned when the capsule is designed to be water tight. F1 closed cockpits of happens would be fire sealed.

Poly carbonate is not a rigid material, and free end needs to be supported for strength


3.5 mm eeerrrrrrr? so why are ballistic visors and windshields of VIP cars inch thick?

[megz]

E= MC^2

A bullet has little mass, a wheel and tyre assembly would weigh much more and in the case of Henry Surtees you'll need much more than 3.5mm of Polycarbonate to dissipate all the energy of a wheel and tyre colliding with a canopy at 200+ kph I should think.

[Moose]

E= MC^2

A bullet has little mass, a wheel and tyre assembly would weigh much more and in the case of Henry Surtees you'll need much more than 3.5mm of Polycarbonate to dissipate all the energy of a wheel and tyre colliding with a canopy at 200+ kph I should think.

E=mc^2 has nothing to do with this, unless you're planning on fissioning the entire tyre, and that's probably going to kill everyone in a ten mile radius.

[i70q7m7ghw]

I agree, I don't think we need a 100% enclosure of the cockpit. The impacts we are trying to protect against will always be from an object heading towards the driver. I think something along the lines of the Lola concept, which could perhaps slide forward aid in exit form the car.

Something like this but higher and slightly more enclosed:
http://revivalsportscars.com/wp-content ... 24x682.jpg

That doesn't look like it would be high enough to protect the driver from a Bianchi / Surtees / Massa type accident, and I'm not sure you could have what is effectively a windscreen high enough to do that without it having to become a major piece of the cars aerodynamics; it'd probably resemble the front of a fighter jet canopy, with an open section straight above the drivers head.

I'm assuming the drivers favour the halo, as there's no curved screen to potentially distort vision, and the teams will like it because it looks to have minimal impact on the aero...

Obviously I'm suggesting it should be higher and more enclosed than that, in line or just above the top of the drivers helmet. The FIA can mandate the shape and size of the windscreen to prevent teams doing anything silly in terms of aero. Aero benefits/disadvantages should be secondary in this debate IMO.

There are pros and cons to all of these ideas. I was reading about the halo concept Anthony Davidson was advocating. My first thought when I saw it was what if it broke during an impact and struck the driver? Too much potential for trapped fingers, or it becoming a danger in a heavy impact for my liking.

I think I like the Lola concept the most. Something small above the drivers head to deflect debris coming in from above, and perhaps something a bit further forward to deflect debris coming from ahead. Anything more enclosed and I feel perhaps we should just go for full enclosed sports car style cockpits with exit hatches on the side of the monocoque.

[Manoah2u]

So how does fire enter a cockpit?

[adrianjordan]

E= MC^2

A bullet has little mass, a wheel and tyre assembly would weigh much more and in the case of Henry Surtees you'll need much more than 3.5mm of Polycarbonate to dissipate all the energy of a wheel and tyre colliding with a canopy at 200+ kph I should think.

I think you're thinking of Force = Mass x Velocity squared

But you also need to consider that the area that the force is spread over also comes into play. A bullet has a tiny impact surface, and so exerts a lot of force through that tiny area. A tyre, or spring, would have a relatively much larger impact area and so the force would be dispersed.

If you want a real world example that you can try and home, take a thumb tack and first off push it into a piece of wood the right way round (sharp point towards the wood, wide flat head agint your thumb). Now try it the other way around with the sharp pointy bit against your thumb and the wide flat part against the wood...

This is why bullet proof glass has to be so thick - it is designed to resist the force being exerted on a tiny area. They also assume that there might be more than 1 bullet.

You wouldn't need to apply this to an F1 cockpit to deflect springs, tyres etc.

Otherwise supersonic fighter jets would have to have screens several inches thick to withstand bird-strikes....they don't, they have thinner screens designed to deflect the impact.

[godlameroso]

LMP1 cars have been closed cockpit for the last 4 years, and they don't have this problem. They do have side doors however, so it's possible for a driver to get out of a rolled over vehicle. I think F1 cars would look cool with a closed cockpit. That silly looking noodle thing they're proposing looks...well silly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rAxhF5eOZI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_IcThvaepM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zieVq1JDAEo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KfdRTQEiyw