Red Bull RB12 TAG-Heuer Speculation Thread

[ME4ME]

So Mercedes and Ferrari are "obviously" not giving out the same software (he knows this how) but Renault, that happens to supply engines to his team, are obviously the good guys, and will remain the good guys when Renault has their own team.

I assume it's as simple as Red Bulls data indicating Mercedes has more power then their costumers, and Ferrari more power than Sauber (as expected, since Sauber only ran the Canada-spec in the 2nd half of the season).

Yeah totally agree. We never heard the engine departments carry on like Newey has done. The engine departments had as much to complain about in years gone by about F1 being an Aero dominated formula.

What engine department?

[NathanOlder]

Engine manufacturers , Mercedes, Ford, BMW, Toyota, Honda, Ferrari, Renault never carried on like Newey does about the sport being an aero dominated Formula, yet they all turned up and made engines, as soon as Newey realised he cant compete with Brixworth HPP, he backs away and deosnt stop complaining. At the moment the current regs allow for the engine geniuses to cut their teeth and help win titles instead of the aero geniuses. About time if you ask me. Aero has been King for too long. If the guy wants no regulations, go make a supercar for the road.

Going back 5 years id guess at F1 being 80% Aero, 20% PowerTrain. Now I see it 65% Powertrain, 35% aero. A much better combination, and more relevant to the current climate.

just my opinion.

[wesley123]

It's still an aero dominated formula

[NathanOlder]

It's still an aero dominated formula

So whats Mr Newey complaining about ?

[ME4ME]

Engine manufacturers , Mercedes, Ford, BMW, Toyota, Honda, Ferrari, Renault never carried on like Newey does about the sport being an aero dominated Formula, yet they all turned up and made engines, as soon as Newey realised he cant compete with Brixworth HPP, he backs away and deosnt stop complaining. At the moment the current regs allow for the engine geniuses to cut their teeth and help win titles instead of the aero geniuses. About time if you ask me. Aero has been King for too long. If the guy wants no regulations, go make a supercar for the road.

Going back 5 years id guess at F1 being 80% Aero, 20% PowerTrain. Now I see it 65% Powertrain, 35% aero. A much better combination, and more relevant to the current climate.

just my opinion.

OK I see where you're coming from now. That's a valid point you make.

In my opinion Newey also makes a valid point though. One engine manufacturer being better than the other is fair enough, but a manufacturer controlling who is competitive or not by the means of handicapping fuel and/or software isn't good for competition.

Also I think Newey is upset over the fact that when his work brought Red Bull to the top, other teams would study it and implement his work for the next year. With engine development that's not really possible as the technology isn't visible to the eye. Red Bull or any other team for that matter who isn't a costumer to the best PU manufacturer is therefor disadvantaged over a sustained period of time.

[Big Mangalhit]

For me he is absolutely right in one point, the fact that the supplier can withheld the best software makes them too much in control. It just takes away the competition if all the other customers have zero chance of wining. If any of them finds a magic bullet and goes to the front the manufacturer can just give them an even worse (in comparison to their own) software. Since these engines are so complex especially in terms of software maps for the harvest/deployment, MGU-H/K, energy transfers in all senses between them H/K/ES, fuel mixtures etc... it seems softwares can play a really important part and it could actually be an important matter for the ruling powers to look over. Maybe some rules quick fix would make it possible for customers to attack the supplier once again.

[bonjon1979]

I agree on the software front but think it's a bit rich to complain about manufacturers being able to pour in more money. For the previous four years Red Bull outspent everyone on Aero development and cleaned up because of it. I don't really see what the difference is here, other than the fact that it harms red bull's chances.

[FW17]

I agree on the software front but think it's a bit rich to complain about manufacturers being able to pour in more money. For the previous four years Red Bull outspent everyone on Aero development and cleaned up because of it. I don't really see what the difference is here, other than the fact that it harms red bull's chances.

When you say outspent what do you mean? Weren't the other teams (Ferrari and McLaren) close in spending?

[bonjon1979]

I agree on the software front but think it's a bit rich to complain about manufacturers being able to pour in more money. For the previous four years Red Bull outspent everyone on Aero development and cleaned up because of it. I don't really see what the difference is here, other than the fact that it harms red bull's chances.

When you say outspent what do you mean? Weren't the other teams (Ferrari and McLaren) close in spending?

I mean that Red Bull are always near the top when it comes to spending. F1 has always been ruled by those who spend the most money. Caterham have no chance of taking on Red bull because there is a inequality in terms of spending. Newey complaining about it being unfair that rival manufacturers can put in more money and buy championships is fundamentally hypocritical as Red Bull have been one of the biggest spenders of the last four years or so and that advantage has seen them have great success.

http://www.pitpass.com/52954/Red-Bull-w ... ts-of-200m

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/221835/1/f ... -most.html

In 2015, they still spent the most and yet they weren't able to win the championship. This must be incredibly galling for Newey whose domain of Aerodynamics always was the most influential in terms of success. If we flip it the other way, then we could say that the new rules have made it LESS about who spends the most money. A team like Williams can now have an engine that allows them to be competitive with spending behemoths Red Bull and Ferrari. Force India can compete where they weren't able to before because they were completely unable to challenge the likes of Red Bull, Mclaren and ferrari's financial might when it comes to aerodynamics. The problem is though, the in built advantage works teams seem to have over customers. There needs to be guarantees that customers get the same package as the works teams to make sure that the manufacturers don't have an in built advantage over the rest of the field.

[ME4ME]

more quotes:

Newey, who now divides his time at Red Bull between F1 and other projects, says his chassis team are "working hard" to try and make up for the engine shortfall on the new RB12.

"It's very clear at the moment that whilst both chassis and power unit are important, there is a greater potential for differentiation in the power unit than a fairly restrictive set of chassis regulations," he said.

"It's going to be difficult but there are still opportunities to make a difference with the chassis and we'll be working hard."

A tight-lipped Horner, speaking at the Zoom charity auction, replied when asked about Red Bull's prospects: "Wait and see. There's always hope. Mario's doing a great job."

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12475/ ... 16-chances

[FoxHound]

I find it interesting how he´s making these wild assumptions and in the same breath clears Renault from it.

Newey has his agenda, it's the same drum beat coming from all of Red Bull's staff. I'll put it down to baseless assumptions to fill newspaper columns rather than anything of value, sad for a man of Newey's calibre.

So Mercedes and Ferrari are "obviously" not giving out the same software (he knows this how) but Renault, that happens to supply engines to his team, are obviously the good guys, and will remain the good guys when Renault has their own team.

Of course, Newey still has a vested interest in saying this. Getting the wrong side of Renault for the umpteenth time would take foolishness to new levels.
But at the same time he denigrates Red Bull's Manufacturer rivals as not supplying teams with "equal" software/equipment/fuel/lubrication.

I'd say to Newey, has any Manufacturer ever supplied 2 teams with completely equal of any of the above?
Before 1990 maybe.

[bonjon1979]

I find it interesting how he´s making these wild assumptions and in the same breath clears Renault from it.

Newey has his agenda, it's the same drum beat coming from all of Red Bull's staff. I'll put it down to baseless assumptions to fill newspaper columns rather than anything of value, sad for a man of Newey's calibre.

So Mercedes and Ferrari are "obviously" not giving out the same software (he knows this how) but Renault, that happens to supply engines to his team, are obviously the good guys, and will remain the good guys when Renault has their own team.

Of course, Newey still has a vested interest in saying this. Getting the wrong side of Renault for the umpteenth time would take foolishness to new levels.
But at the same time he denigrates Red Bull's Manufacturer rivals as not supplying teams with "equal" software/equipment/fuel/lubrication.

I'd say to Newey, has any Manufacturer ever supplied 2 teams with completely equal of any of the above?
Before 1990 maybe.

I seem to remember red bull slagging off the software in 2014 and installing their own programmers to do it better. I may be remembering incorrectly.

[VarioR]

Red Bull will unveil the new livery today

[Samraj_official]

so No....powered by tagheuer line on the engine cover

[djos]

so No....powered by tagheuer line on the engine cover
http://i68.tinypic.com/i77ukk.jpg

The pic clearly shows tagheur on the engine cover.