how to to make F1 more exciting by radical technical changes

[willygd97]

The Fan car is an interesting idea, but it will bring so many problems related to debris and car design, meaning that it isn't a reasonable option.

F1 needs to bring back ground effect, that will make room for more simple wings, and could reduce the turbulence.

A Wider car will add a bit of mechanical grip. A shorter wheelbase can make the cars harder to drive. There is a lot of room for modifications to improve the races.

Harder tires with more slip angle are a really good option, that will make the drivers work more in braking and throttle control. Drivers will have to be smoother to avoid overload the tires

[Abstractness]

You mean the car you couldn't drive behind because it kept sucking up debris everywhere?
Also, downforce is dependent on speed, so a fan wont magically give you the same downforce everywhere. Plus, at low(er) speeds the car is limited by mechanical grip, not downforce.

As I previously said "the rules can be adapted such that the down force does not increase additionally with speed".
So the specific construction used by the Brabham team would not be legal anymore.
For instance skirts would remain illegal. Instead the air would be sucked up vertically by a more centrally placed fan. The air would flow in from all sides. The underside of the car would have more of a doughnut-like curvature to produce a strong ground effect even when the car is standing. So it wouldn't be limited in the same way as a current F1 car.

The fan car worked by sealing the floor, it's an requirement in making the whole thing work. If air can just freely flow in it wouldn't create much of a suction effect, as the whole thing needs to create a vacuum under the car. At least, that was the thought with the BT46 as well as the Chaparral 2J.

The Lotus 78 used the Venturi effect under the side pods to generate down force.
Now instead of having high speed air flow from the front to back you could also construct a standing car having airflow from all sides to the center, where the fan is. The underside would be curved such that all the air flow follows a Venturi channel profile, which is why I said "doughnut-like curvature". Additionally you could use the flow to induce a big vortex around the center underneath the car which would produce additional vacuum. If the rotation of the fan upsets the sideways-balance just use a fan for each side of the car spinning in opposite directions.
If this is not powerful enough already, then a sealed off area should be legalized.

Even with higher slip angles it would still be near impossible to see the car move from a grandstand, so unless you want the cars to drift(which would look pretty funny tbh) this is pretty much a no-go.

The viewers on the grandstand are not what brings in the real money, It's the people behind the TV. So it would make a difference.

Except those viewers can already very well see what the driver is doing.

No they can't. They can only see a small fraction of it.
If we let's say double the optimal slip angles there would be larger yaw angles as well as larger corrections on the steering wheel which would produce better off board as well as on board footage. Here you see F1 drivers on different tyres, off course we don't need such big slip angles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8tRLdqFbe0
Also check out how differently the steering wheel is moved: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtFbXJydEXg

[Abstractness]

But system would need to have enough momentum such that in case of power failure the fan keeps on rotating for a while to allow the pilot to slow down before the downforce disappears.

Well OK, let's see how big a flywheel you'd need to keep a 45 hp fan (say) running for one second (say) before half the downforce vanishes? Show your working. Yes, you'll have to make some assumptions.

When KERS was first introduced there was a F1 team that wanted to use a flywheel as energy storage. If it could be used for KERS it should be no problem to keep the fan running for a few seconds

[wesley123]

When KERS was first introduced there was a F1 team that wanted to use a flywheel as energy storage. If it could be used for KERS it should be no problem to keep the fan running for a few seconds

Not really a good comparison. It completely ignores the friction in the system. The Flywheel(in case of KERS) kept spinning because of the vacuum. It lost momentum as soon as it discharged. Now, with a fan it has to propel said fan through pressure differences etc. Downforce would be lost very quickly, and even if it lost only 5% it still be too much due to the limit F1 drivers drive on.

[Greg Locock]

Describe the system you are proposing. I thought the idea was that the fan itself was the flywheel. if you are proposing to use KERS to power it then you have a system that is in all probability less reliable than a direct drive from the engine.

In order to get weight effective flywheel storage you need to run at very high rpm, unfeasible for a fan. If you have a separate flywheel and some sort of speed reduction system you have increased the weight and unreliability of the basic system, whether that is a valid tradeoff we'll never know.

[Abstractness]

Describe the system you are proposing. I thought the idea was that the fan itself was the flywheel. if you are proposing to use KERS to power it then you have a system that is in all probability less reliable than a direct drive from the engine.
In order to get weight effective flywheel storage you need to run at very high rpm, unfeasible for a fan. If you have a separate flywheel and some sort of speed reduction system you have increased the weight and unreliability of the basic system, whether that is a valid tradeoff we'll never know.

If the fan itself is the flywheel then the fan blades have to go supersonic.
If you want the blades to travel at a lower velocity then the fan and flywheel have to be separated.
They could still be directly connected with the same rpm though, You'd just have to use a turbine with a significantly smaller diameter than the flywheel. Another obvious way would be to use a fixed gear transmission between the fan/turbine and the flywheel.

[Abstractness]

Describe the system you are proposing. I thought the idea was that the fan itself was the flywheel. if you are proposing to use KERS to power it then you have a system that is in all probability less reliable than a direct drive from the engine.
In order to get weight effective flywheel storage you need to run at very high rpm, unfeasible for a fan. If you have a separate flywheel and some sort of speed reduction system you have increased the weight and unreliability of the basic system, whether that is a valid tradeoff we'll never know.

If the fan itself is the flywheel then the fan blades have to go supersonic. I don't know how feasible this is, but I guess jet engines do it.
If you want the blades to travel at a lower velocity, then the fan and flywheel have to be separated.
They could still be directly connected with the same rpm though, You'd just have to use a turbine with a significantly smaller diameter than the flywheel.
Another obvious way would be to use a fixed gear transmission between the fan/turbine and the flywheel.

[Abstractness]

I forgot to say: Such cars would not be allowed to drive in monaco

[DiogoBrand]

Making F1 more exciting is as simple as making the cars rely more on mechanical grip. Anyone that knows something about motorsport knows that.

[notsofast]

How about a different approach. Use a standard size for the area where the driver sits (cockpit? tub?). Make a personalized seat for each driver, that fits in every car. This way, every driver can fit in every car. Then, put as many races on the calendar as there are drivers, and let each driver drive each car once during a season. This would create a proper driver's championship while still maintaining a proper constructor's championship. Mercedes would still be rewarded for having the best car, but no driver will be able to run away with the driver's championship. No gimmicks needed.

[Xwang]

How about a different approach. Use a standard size for the area where the driver sits (cockpit? tub?). Make a personalized seat for each driver, that fits in every car. This way, every driver can fit in every car. Then, put as many races on the calendar as there are drivers, and let each driver drive each car once during a season. This would create a proper driver's championship while still maintaining a proper constructor's championship. Mercedes would still be rewarded for having the best car, but no driver will be able to run away with the driver's championship. No gimmicks needed.

I agree with you! I had this idea some time ago too and I think it will be very interesting to see such a championship.

[Rudinski]

My suggestion to make the sport more interesting and keep the budget reasonable is: More power. If the engine rules were such that it is easy to produce reliable 1500 hp (enough displacement with turbo), it would make the engine development almost meaningless. In addition it would be much better measure for drivers capabilities to handle that power which is almost every case "more than enough". Aero should be more restricted, but as I am not an aero engineer, I'll leave this open for discussion.

Scenario 2: If some think that it is important that F1 is the most technically advanced racing series and teams should use as much money as they are now. Then there should be much more freedom in the electric part of the powertrain. Maybe no restrictions at all (of course safety shouldn't be compromized). This would, maybe produce some new interesting techology to road cars as well.

[zenji]

I always dreamt during the V10 era this as the ultimate;
1/400kg min weight
2/active aero
3/4 wheel steering
4/shaft turbine driving 4 hub motors
5/smaller, lower, wider

The car should have aero much like a bird, an outer armour of carbon fibre plates standing up for each deceleration and flattening out with hard acceleration, animal like with an aggressiveness that commands attention.

The turbine should be oversize and the hub motors should be a combined power of 750kw.
Should be able to do 4 wheel burnouts like a wrc but much zippier, basically a real scary beast!

[bret191]

Just my 2 cents and some ideas.


Start with, NO in cockpit adjustable electric or manual engine, transmission, suspension. Brake bias and fuel ratio only!
Open up the engine rules to any mass produced STOCK BLOCK within the last 15 years. Block has to of been in any car that was mass produced and available to the public as a standard engine, in at least two models this will keep the manufacturers from using a one off special edition engine. No Block mods but blue printing. = This will open up innovation and competition within the teams to get the most H.P. Per gallon of fuel to weight to reliability!
The use of any induction turbo, supercharger, calibrator or injected. No oxygenated enhancers “squeeze” They can innovate any exotic induction and exhaust, any rotating ass. Any type of piston. Ias long as it meets a minimum weight for the piston and rod to keep from pistons or rods from costing $10,000 -$20,000 each.
Public available fuel”gasoline or diesel” Only
2-4 wheel drive, 4 wheels total. 18”tire width rear-14” front tires.
One ECU ONLY the management of trans and engine only. No remote adjust-ability of ECU other than in the PIT.
Chassis
Flat floors only, no tunnels. ONE standard bolt on floor cover for every car.= That will help stop the type of crashes in high speed turns and leave every car with a standard platform to start with.
Limit wing area to f and r to only 10S.F. Per car, front wing three tier only, rear, four tier only. Side panels on wings 8S.F.rear and 2S.F. Front. Flat only NO holes other than for mounting of wings only, no generators.
4S.F. Of ONE bonus wing per side anywhere on chassis between front and rear wing above floor by 10 CM. And not to extend above engine cowling.
Driver cell is to have at least ½ meter of crush structure on all sides of driver! Cell is also standard width and length interior to aid in extractions!
Open up tires to any manufacturer as long as they can supply all teams and they can pass the 250 MPH safety standard. Tires also have to be available to any one in other series or street! Tires are to be no more than “with in 10%”a competitive price compared to similar tires. No price gouging! It wouldn't happen but If teams can run one set start to finish so be it!
Give incentives to the slower teams to get better! Extra test days and wind tunnel time!
Slash wind tunnel time down by ½ -3/4 during season! Save millions per season and open up ingenuity and innovation as teams will use time more intelligently!

Of course all of these rules would have to be refined in a comity setting to make sure theyare fair and capable of accomplishing said agenda= save money, tighten up lap times to all, make the driver talent more important instead of money/resources, open up the teams to innovate new technologies and ideas/processes that will lead to REAL world applications! Give the car manufactures incentives to build engines that are capable of high/reliable HP to weight/fuel savings!

[Jolle]

I think the first question has to be in what sense F1 has to become more exciting. One could want more close racing, the other new technical innovations. It's either one or the other.

For close racing the cars need to be evenly matched with good drivability and a lot of driver aides. The faster the cars, how wider the gaps between the good and the best drivers. A GP2 kind of car is then where F1 would be heading and an end to this forum.

F1 became my "thing" because of the wild technology of the exploding turbo engines, the first use of carbon, innovations with active suspension (and as a young lad Lauda's burned face and the heroic story behind it). What made this aura of F1 bigger were the immense costs involved.

F1 needs a story, like a soap. Senna-Prost, where both were racing from completely opposite ways, clashing. Ferrari who just couldn't win, stumbled over each other like a pair of comedians. In the end, it's a game about people, so... I think with Hamilton, Vettel and at the moment, Verstappen the future looks bright!

What might spice things up are extra escapes, like the reintroduction of a T-car, which was made redundant with the one-engine per two weekends rule, but now with 5-a-season there is little reason to have two cars per driver (for the bigger teams) and a return to warm-up training. Drivers can take a bit more risk then.