Scuderia Ferrari SF16-H

[ferkan]

Not gonna say much about Ferraris performance (since they really did look geniuenly quick in tesing), but it does kind of irk how there are lots of reports about Ferrari not being able to push things to absolute maximum past few years, yet still expecting championship.

Here, if this report is true that means that their nose is obviously not best these regulations can produce, but they might not even have new one since they already had to many failed crash tests. RBR was rumored to have had dozens of failed crash test until they came up with nose that they still race with.

Same with front wing...Other top teams will bring changes to already very complex and obviously better FWs (judging by their performance in aero dependent tracks) but Ferrari is somehow "happy" with their current one.

Maybe Im just blabbing, I probably am, its late. They are probably doing astonoshing job already. People were saying they have tighter packaging because they increased lenght of a car, turns out the new one is actually shorter but also much tighter.

I guess we will have to wait and see. Reports from Italy generally say, dont hold your breaths for Melbourne updates. Maybe they look to introduce big one at Barcelona.

[paoloc]

"According to Turrini, the current nose of the SF16-H is not the final version, but probably it won't be changed."

That sentence makes my head hurt.

According to Turrini, the current nose of the SF16-H is not the final version, but probably it's the final version.

I think the problem is with the translation and more properly with semantic differences between Italian and English language and, what Turrini wrote (http://blog.quotidiano.net/turrini/2016 ... todt-jean/) and was correctly quoted by ripper is "Il musetto Rosso non è definitivo, ma non è detto sarà cambiato" could be better translated as "the current nose of the SF16-H is not how it was meant to be, but probably it won't be changed."

[bhall II]

RBR was rumored to have had dozens of failed crash test until they came up with nose that they still race with.

Even then, the results weren't exactly stellar...

You can see by the aggressively short nature of it that it's been quite a technical challenge. It's a great credit to the guys that actually did it to get it through [the crash test].

It's not a negative at all - it's an engineering masterpiece that they've managed to achieve.

We came here with upgrades this weekend but they didn’t give us what we were expecting, so that’s something we’ll keep working on.

The regulations are so restricted that development in certain areas is well into the range of diminishing returns at this point. For instance, I'd be surprised if Mercedes' new S-duct has an appreciable effect outside the wind tunnel. It's just one of those things you do because you can.

All of which is to say, the nose situation isn't ideal, but it's probably not a big deal.

And just to sorta drag this back on topic a bit, one of my earlier misgivings about the design of SF16-H was the apparent abandonment of several concepts from SF15-T that were copied by others this season, like the treatment on the sidepod's top leading edge...



I've since realized that it has not been abandoned; it's been improved.



The idea is to minimize air flow over the sidepod, where it would generate lift, and instead direct it around the sidepod, which is a route to the back of the car that doesn't generate lift. The new design is both lower, for reduced frontal area, and it seems to direct a greater percentage of air flow around the sidepod.

I think this car has a few secrets to tell.

[ripper]

I know that my english isn't very good, I Really appreciate your corrections.

[Fer.Fan]

RBR was rumored to have had dozens of failed crash test until they came up with nose that they still race with.

Even then, the results weren't exactly stellar...

You can see by the aggressively short nature of it that it's been quite a technical challenge. It's a great credit to the guys that actually did it to get it through [the crash test].

It's not a negative at all - it's an engineering masterpiece that they've managed to achieve.

We came here with upgrades this weekend but they didn’t give us what we were expecting, so that’s something we’ll keep working on.

The regulations are so restricted that development in certain areas is well into the range of diminishing returns at this point. For instance, I'd be surprised if Mercedes' new S-duct has an appreciable effect outside the wind tunnel. It's just one of those things you do because you can.

All of which is to say, the nose situation isn't ideal, but it's probably not a big deal.

And just to sorta drag this back on topic a bit, one of my earlier misgivings about the design of SF16-H was the apparent abandonment of several concepts from SF15-T that were copied by others this season, like the treatment on the sidepod's top leading edge...

http://s15.postimg.org/va9ug48p7/mercedes_wo7_f.jpg

I've since realized that it has not been abandoned; it's been improved.

http://s10.postimg.org/v1qqik5o9/image_8_2000x1125.jpg

The idea is to minimize air flow over the sidepod, where it would generate lift, and instead direct it around the sidepod, which is a route to the back of the car that doesn't generate lift. The new design is both lower, for reduced frontal area, and it seems to direct a greater percentage of air flow around the sidepod.

I think this car has a few secrets to tell.

Yes I think You are right. Ferrari wants air to go around sidepod. At first look it looks like that top leading edge creates massive drag but instead it is design to minimize air flow over side pod. Simple but good if it works.

[Fer.Fan]

RBR was rumored to have had dozens of failed crash test until they came up with nose that they still race with.

Even then, the results weren't exactly stellar...

You can see by the aggressively short nature of it that it's been quite a technical challenge. It's a great credit to the guys that actually did it to get it through [the crash test].

It's not a negative at all - it's an engineering masterpiece that they've managed to achieve.

We came here with upgrades this weekend but they didn’t give us what we were expecting, so that’s something we’ll keep working on.

The regulations are so restricted that development in certain areas is well into the range of diminishing returns at this point. For instance, I'd be surprised if Mercedes' new S-duct has an appreciable effect outside the wind tunnel. It's just one of those things you do because you can.

All of which is to say, the nose situation isn't ideal, but it's probably not a big deal.

And just to sorta drag this back on topic a bit, one of my earlier misgivings about the design of SF16-H was the apparent abandonment of several concepts from SF15-T that were copied by others this season, like the treatment on the sidepod's top leading edge...

http://s15.postimg.org/va9ug48p7/mercedes_wo7_f.jpg

I've since realized that it has not been abandoned; it's been improved.

http://s10.postimg.org/v1qqik5o9/image_8_2000x1125.jpg

The idea is to minimize air flow over the sidepod, where it would generate lift, and instead direct it around the sidepod, which is a route to the back of the car that doesn't generate lift. The new design is both lower, for reduced frontal area, and it seems to direct a greater percentage of air flow around the sidepod.

I think this car has a few secrets to tell.

Yes I think You are right. Ferrari wants air to go around sidepod. At first look it looks like that top leading edge creates massive drag but instead it is design to minimize air flow over side pod. Simple but good if it works.

[ferkan]

Bhall nice write up, it seems to me that Ferrari is doing what RBR is doing as well on their sidepods.

As for RBRs nose, I do remember them saying that they couldn't "figure" out chassis in first part of the year. But with few changes it was really good next half. Would make a sense since new one is practically evolution of last years one.

[flynfrog]

Just deleted about a page of posts that were about other cars and teams. Please consult the posting guidelines before posting in the car threads.

[Blackout]

The bottom part of the Ferrari gearbox is nicely raised, for the diffuser
http://img1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Sau ... 931733.jpg

[Sevach]

[sterumbelow]

http://img1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Fer ... 935359.jpg

That's the same wing Kimi ran on day 1 of the second test.

[Just_a_fan]

.

http://s10.postimg.org/v1qqik5o9/image_8_2000x1125.jpg

The idea is to minimize air flow over the sidepod, where it would generate lift, and instead direct it around the sidepod, which is a route to the back of the car that doesn't generate lift. The new design is both lower, for reduced frontal area, and it seems to direct a greater percentage of air flow around the sidepod.

I think this car has a few secrets to tell.

It's about cleaning up the flow coming from the front wheel, separating it from flow coming around the undercut from the barge board. You can't stop air flow over the sidepods ; if you did that you'd be creating a vacuum which, of course, is a bad thing. (Not really a vacuum of course but an area in to which air will rush anyway.) These side pod treatments are about getting the right quality of air to go where you want it. The air will flow over the top of the sidepods - you can't stop that. You can try to ensure that the air going over the sidepods is "clean" in order to help the rear wing and the diffuser.

Different car but look where the air flows:


Please try to restrict your comments to actual items that are on the SF 16-H.

The air on the shoulder will move up on to the side pod and that's not a bad thing as it clears the way for air in the undercut to flow around to the diffuser roof. The air flowing over the side pod is nice and clean, sure this generates some lift but it is low drag and it helps the rear end. The result is a net gain in downforce from the car. L/D rises which is a good thing.

[Just_a_fan]

Please try to restrict your comments to actual items that are on the SF 16-H.

How about cleaning up the masses of multiple reposts in this thread that just add masses of stuff to scroll through to find a line that basically says "I agree"?

The reason I used a picture of the Renault is because I couldn't find one of the Ferrari with flo-viz on the side pod. If I could have, I would have. It's difficult enough having technical discussions on this site these days without being picked up in this way.

[bhall II]

It's about cleaning up the flow coming from the front wheel...

The idea is the same as what's seen below. It just uses a pressure gradient instead of vortex generators....



It's also been Ferrari's design philosophy since 2014.



I guess a better way to make my statement would have been to say that it helps redirect topside air flow over the flanks of the sidepods in a way that likely minimizes lift.

Also remember that the context of my post concerns the leading edge indentations, not necessarily the turning vanes.

(The photos obviously depict other cars, but they're nonetheless illustrative of SF16-H's concept.)

[Just_a_fan]

It would be useful if we could find a flo-viz image of the 16-H. Google hasn't thrown up anything for me yet. Likewise the W07 as that was compared by you earlier. Sadly, I fear the teams haven't been very helpful on this issue!