The speed traps recorded during qualifying for the Australian Grand Prix show more or less the same ranking order as in 2015. While Force India and Williams continue to be among the fastest in a straight line, McLaren are still at the bottom of the charts.
Hamilton was 27s behind vettel moments before SC and had tons of cars in front on soft tires. He was not in any kind of contention for victory (or podium if rai doesn't break down) at that point. Red flag saved his day, that much 100% clear.Chene_Mostert wrote:Too much bla-blaPhil wrote:Yes, quite clearly. On lap 16, the order was 1. Rai, 2. Vet, 3. Ham, 4. Ros. This order is of course slightly misleading because Vettel and Rosberg had already stopped, while Rai and Ham were still on their first set of tires.Alguck wrote:The red flag was COSTLY to Hamilton? You mean because it didn't give him a huge second advantage in addition to eliminating the quite substantial gaps in front of him?
Vettel was on super softs (the unused ones from Q3), Rosberg on softs.
Then, end of lap 16, onto lap 17, Hamilton and kimi dive into the pits. Hamilton pitted strategically onto medium tires that at that point were clear was the focus to drive to the end without another stop, meaning that even though Rosberg was now ahead on quicker tires, he would later have to pit, so would have to make good on that time he would lose through the pits.
At that point, the order was 1.) Vet (SS) 2.) Ros (S), 3.) Kimi (S), 4.) Ric (SS) 5.) Ves (S), 6. Sainz (S), 7. Ham (M)
Then the crash happened and subsequent red-flag, meaning that tires could be changed. This enabled Rosberg to strategically move to mediums as well and his relative position to Hamilton just increased by that pitstop he would have made had that red-flag not happened. Ricciardo was the big winner here, because he had not pitted yet and therefore could stay in 4th position. Had Hamilton not pitted, he would have been in 3rd with the freedom of choice of tyres behind Rosberg on the same, with no gap.
Lets assume no luck, just safety-car, no red-flag - then Vettels position would have been stronger relative to Rosberg (SS vs S) meaning both would have needed to pit again. It would have also meant that Ham would have faced the same situation vs. the two Torro Rossos in front, but once ahead, would have been closer to Rosberg and Vettel given both would have had to pit again. That situation stayed vs. Vettel (who then had the problem of facing track position but his gap to Rosberg eliminated which meant he fell back to 3rd).
Imagine, no red-flag, no tyre change - Hamilton on mediums vs cars in front of him who all needed to pit again. He might have ended up 1st or at worst still 2nd because his position would have only been better than what unfolded with the red-flag and Rosberg moving to mediums too on a free pitstop (during the red-flag).
EDIT:
In short. With red-flag; Hamilton lost his advantage by pitting on to mediums relative to Rosberg and had to deal with Ricciardo ahead of him (who got a free pitstop because of the red-flag). Had the red-flag not happened, Rosberg would have remained on softs and Ricciardo at his pitstop would have fell behind the TRs and Hamilton. Hamilton finished 6+ seconds off the lead - imagine the situation WITHOUT the red-flag and Rosberg doing an extra pitstop and Ricciardo not being in the way.
You are ignoring the fact that both Vet and Ros would have opened a Pittston gap to Lewis. What was the gap prior to the SC?
Face it Lewis failed today and benefited from the incident.
Also I get the feeling That Mercedes AMG F1 has selected Nico as the 2016 WDC, we will get a clear picture after first quarter of the season.
Nope, I was just arguing *red-flag* vs *safety car*. Both lead to gaps being narrowed. Hamilton was behind both Torro Rossos anyway, so the the gap that would have happened, happened anyway. The only difference is that Rosberg would have fell back by a pitstop at some point if there had only been a safety car. Because it was a red-flag, they changed his strategy to the same of Hamiltons and nullified that pitstop.Chene_Mostert wrote:You are ignoring the fact that both Vet and Ros would have opened a Pittston gap to Lewis. What was the gap prior to the SC?
Wow. Just wow.Chene_Mostert wrote: Also I get the feeling That Mercedes AMG F1 has selected Nico as the 2016 WDC, we will get a clear picture after first quarter of the season.
No point Phil. No point trying to explain stuff to some people.Phil wrote:Nope, I was just arguing *red-flag* vs *safety car*.Chene_Mostert wrote:You are ignoring the fact that both Vet and Ros would have opened a Pittston gap to Lewis. What was the gap prior to the SC?
I was gonna vote for Sainz, but seems he is not on the ballot....Kiril Varbanov wrote:DOTD is here - http://www.f1technical.net/poll/index.php?dispid=314 - cast your vote!
I think you are right:Phil wrote:Nope, I was just arguing *red-flag* vs *safety car*. Both lead to gaps being narrowed. Hamilton was behind both Torro Rossos anyway, so the the gap that would have happened, happened anyway. The only difference is that Rosberg would have fell back by a pitstop at some point if there had only been a safety car. Because it was a red-flag, they changed his strategy to the same of Hamiltons and nullified that pitstop.Chene_Mostert wrote:You are ignoring the fact that both Vet and Ros would have opened a Pittston gap to Lewis. What was the gap prior to the SC?
If there had been no safety car at all, yes, the gaps would have been bigger and he probably would have been 3rd at best (behnind Vettel and Rosberg, assuming Kimi would have dropped out regardless due to his DNF). No argument there.
Being lucky doesn't do all the job, you still have to face your opponents and save your position. It is very funny to see the behavior of the two STR in front of Lewis and behind a Renault. A champion should convert any chances to something good for him at the end of race, and for that Lewis Hamilton has improved a lot. Lets see when Rosberg or Vettel will be in front of him with less than a second...Juzh wrote:All in all, hamilton is the biggest lucker on the front of the grid with safety cars/red flags in recent years, saving his ass massively after his own screw ups or simply being slow. Off the top of my head: Hungary in 2014, 2015, usa 2015 multiple times, australia 2016. Probably more.
Monaco is the only one now going in his favour, but that one was down to him
Agreed. The race should be frozen. We had a good mix of tyres and strategies when the red flag came out, and then at the restart everyone is on the same tyre. Massive shame. It's the same thing that happened at Monaco a few years back, completely nullified the fight at the front that day.SiLo wrote:I really wish they weren't allowed to work on the cars during a red flag.
