2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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danielk
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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In my view it seems clear that they have made some good improvements, the time they achieved in Q1 with Alonso was a bit of a surprise. I know there was quite a bit of track evolution and others maybe not getting their best laps in but it was encouraging.. At least Jenson got to the end of the race! that's more data than they got on most days last year.

If we believe their press releases and what people are saying from the team (which is hard to do given last years Bull Sh**). They have allot of progress they can make just by running the engine and changing maps, they have had limited running with the new spec engine and one can only hope that given its young age compared to other engine manufacturers there is allot more untapped potential even without Hardware updates (remember Mercedes have 4 teams of Data, Ferrari have 4 teams data(not sure how many of them have 2016 power unit??), Renault have 2 teams data Honda have 1.) so the understanding of the engine compared to the others is low.

What I do think is now clear is that the Honda Power Unit is better than the Renault engine in its current form, and look what Red Bull managed to do. Leaves me to think that McLaren Chassis aint great! (no wonder McLaren didn't want Honda to provide Red Bull with a engine.)

On another note, Alonso's engine. Im assuming that is now a goner so he will be on his second engine already. May mean that if any upgrades were going to come over the next few races, then Alonso may well not get them as it will mean introducing yet another engine.

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Thunder
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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Andres125sx wrote: Probably waiting until the PU can show all it can do instead of bashing it after first race of an almost new PU :wink:
No, that would be the sensible Way. The Internet doesn't work like that. We demand Torches and Pitchforks. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Phil
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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Postmoe wrote:The car looks like a solid midfield contender, however there is the fact that they only have two cars vs all the other manufacturers. This creates a negative bias every time there is a DNF or a bad strategy call.
That's a good point. It's rather paradox. I think if Honda wants to be a winning engine-manufacturer, they need to supply more teams to get more data (or raise the competition levels among their customers), but that would mean supplying a team like Red-Bull. And that of course wouldn't be in McLaren's interest.

I'm not sure McLaren-Honda as the sole partnership of those two will ever be enough to be a WDC/WCC contender. But who knows; maybe with the way they are improving on the PU side being at least competitive, they might be able to supply another midfield team by next year. Sauber would certainly be a good candidate, although they are probably quite reliant on the partnership with Ferrari. RedBull wants/needs an alternative engine to what they are getting now, given I'm sure Renault will not want to supply them next year. So....
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ollandos
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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alonso and rosberg 1st pit stops on lap 12 ..both soft tyres on lap 13 alonso personal best lap 1.32.553 rosberg on this time faster lap of the race until this moment with 1.31.298 ..gap 1.255sec..... more or less that is the gap from mercedes

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henry
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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ollandos wrote:alonso and rosberg 1st pit stops on lap 12 ..both soft tyres on lap 13 alonso personal best lap 1.32.553 rosberg on this time faster lap of the race until this moment with 1.31.298 ..gap 1.255sec..... more or less that is the gap from mercedes
fastest laps are one measure.

Over the last 24 laps Button lost 36 seconds to Hamilton. 1.5 seconds/lap, same tyres older for Hamilton but I think he was probably pushing a little harder.
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Soichiro
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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henry wrote:
ollandos wrote:alonso and rosberg 1st pit stops on lap 12 ..both soft tyres on lap 13 alonso personal best lap 1.32.553 rosberg on this time faster lap of the race until this moment with 1.31.298 ..gap 1.255sec..... more or less that is the gap from mercedes
fastest laps are one measure.

Over the last 24 laps Button lost 36 seconds to Hamilton. 1.5 seconds/lap, same tyres older for Hamilton but I think he was probably pushing a little harder.
He was stuck behind Nasr. He was doing low 1:33 before catching Nasr and then went into mid 1:34 and after getting past Nasr (after 6-7 laps) back into 1:33.

Jef Patat
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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True:
Image

But in all fairness Button was stuck as well:
Image
and
Image

ollandos
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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looks like mclaren close the half gap ....from 2.2-2.5 sec to 1-1.3,1,4 sec ....from faster car ...almost 1 sec ...not bad not enough ...the question now is how much time can find from chassis and when?...and how much from PU and when?...

calendar have 3 race on june and 4 on july ....and 5 before .....if can have big upgrades on the first race of jyne (canada) maybe have new targets for this season......

ollandos
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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looks like mclaren close the half gap ....from 2.2-2.5 sec to 1-1.3,1,4 sec ....from faster car ...almost 1 sec ...not bad not enough ...the question now is how much time can find from chassis and when?...and how much from PU and when?...

calendar have 3 race on june and 4 on july ....and 5 before .....if can have big upgrades on the first race of jyne (canada) maybe have new targets for this season......

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KingHamilton01
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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Phil wrote:
Postmoe wrote:The car looks like a solid midfield contender, however there is the fact that they only have two cars vs all the other manufacturers. This creates a negative bias every time there is a DNF or a bad strategy call.
That's a good point. It's rather paradox. I think if Honda wants to be a winning engine-manufacturer, they need to supply more teams to get more data (or raise the competition levels among their customers), but that would mean supplying a team like Red-Bull. And that of course wouldn't be in McLaren's interest.

I'm not sure McLaren-Honda as the sole partnership of those two will ever be enough to be a WDC/WCC contender. But who knows; maybe with the way they are improving on the PU side being at least competitive, they might be able to supply another midfield team by next year. Sauber would certainly be a good candidate, although they are probably quite reliant on the partnership with Ferrari. RedBull wants/needs an alternative engine to what they are getting now, given I'm sure Renault will not want to supply them next year. So....
I think they have sounded Sauber out as the most likely team to be supplied Honda Engines.
McLaren Mercedes

taperoo2k
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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Chene_Mostert wrote:What's the next step in terms of PU for McLaren once they accept that this Honda partnership is not working?
McLaren will stick it out with Honda, if they go with the other manufacturers then they will be stuck in a similar situation to Williams aka unable to beat the Mercedes unless they build a better car.

I doubt Ron Dennis would risk the entire McLaren group on building a McLaren in house PU. It's basically Honda or bust for the F1 side of McLaren.

As for the Honda PU and MP4-31 ? There is progress but it's way too early in the season to be making snap judgements on the PU and Car's maximum potential. The European part of the season will probably show how things will pan out for McLaren and Honda for the rest of the season.

GoranF1
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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ollandos wrote:looks like mclaren close the half gap ....from 2.2-2.5 sec to 1-1.3,1,4 sec ....from faster car ...almost 1 sec ...not bad not enough ...the question now is how much time can find from chassis and when?...and how much from PU and when?...

calendar have 3 race on june and 4 on july ....and 5 before .....if can have big upgrades on the first race of jyne (canada) maybe have new targets for this season......
There will be no token upgrade from Honda before race 11 or 12,and as @sasha hinted that will include a moving of the Compressor to the rear of engine.
There will be software,reability and PU optimization updates.
But there will be chassis upgrades from Mclaren that could bring big chunks of lap time soon.
That is my opinion anyways...1.2-1.4 gap to Mercedes is very good news and it could go down to under 1 sec by Spain GP.
Catching 3rd fastest team by end of year now seems more likely than during testing although AUS is specific track and pecking order might be different on "steril" tracks F1 is full of this days.
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Manu_Forti
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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Some of the posters who declare that Honda and McLaren are not working need to look back at the current leaders in Formula 1. Not that long ago Mercedes were nowhere, they had a long lead in time to develop their new hybrid engine tech for 2014 and they did, and have done since, a far better job than anyone else. How many races did they win in the two years prior to 2014 ??

Its been one season and one race. Honda didnt have the lead in time others did and are racing to catch up on a grid that is ever moving forward. I would write off Honda at your peril. The engine last year was their first effort and they couldnt change what they knew to be wrong. This year has started off better but some posters on here are already writing them off after one race.

That is ridiculous.
"In times of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act" .. George Orwell

CjC
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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Manu_Forti wrote:Some of the posters who declare that Honda and McLaren are not working need to look back at the current leaders in Formula 1. Not that long ago Mercedes were nowhere, they had a long lead in time to develop their new hybrid engine tech for 2014 and they did, and have done since, a far better job than anyone else. How many races did they win in the two years prior to 2014 ??

Its been one season and one race. Honda didnt have the lead in time others did and are racing to catch up on a grid that is ever moving forward. I would write off Honda at your peril. The engine last year was their first effort and they couldnt change what they knew to be wrong. This year has started off better but some posters on here are already writing them off after one race.

That is ridiculous.
Agreed.
Also the token system is being dropped next year so updating the PU will be easier.

In my opinion it'll be the 2018 season when Mclaren and Honda will challenge.

All the teams take a 4 year cycle of a new system to get to the top.
Just a fan's point of view

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Manu_Forti
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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CjC wrote:
Manu_Forti wrote:Some of the posters who declare that Honda and McLaren are not working need to look back at the current leaders in Formula 1. Not that long ago Mercedes were nowhere, they had a long lead in time to develop their new hybrid engine tech for 2014 and they did, and have done since, a far better job than anyone else. How many races did they win in the two years prior to 2014 ??

Its been one season and one race. Honda didnt have the lead in time others did and are racing to catch up on a grid that is ever moving forward. I would write off Honda at your peril. The engine last year was their first effort and they couldnt change what they knew to be wrong. This year has started off better but some posters on here are already writing them off after one race.

That is ridiculous.
Agreed.
Also the token system is being dropped next year so updating the PU will be easier.

In my opinion it'll be the 2018 season when Mclaren and Honda will challenge.

All the teams take a 4 year cycle of a new system to get to the top.
Had forgotten about the Token system being dropped, nice spot. 2018 looks the best bet like you say. I just cant see Honda and McLaren parting without winning.
"In times of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act" .. George Orwell