New qualifying format...

[mika vs michael]

The system is flawed. Qualifying should be about low fuel runs on the fastest tyre. This awful system will lead to teams filling their cars with fuel and doing circles around the track...

Why should they???
At the moment the top teams fill up for 5 laps to do a second attempt immediately, because their times are sufficient to get to Q2 on a used set of tires or on more fuel. The slow runners can not do this, they need a lap on fresh tires and low fuel to have a chance for Q2. They either have the chance to nail the first lap or to go out when the fast teams have done their attempt (so round about 3min after the start of Q1. Everything else does not make sense.

Then they have to get out all of the non top 2 teams the last dying minutes before the elimination. But they won't do that because they want to find free track. What I saw in Q1 in albert park was cars running multiple rounds. It is not easy to follow for the spectators on track but it is not easy to follow while watching on tv. most of the drivers have not tried to escape elimination. you already knew what is going to happen...who is going to be eliminated. no suspense at all. Let's see in bahrain if it goes any better but I doubt it.

[Moose]

I think it wasn't broken.

No one complained about how Qualifying was before.

Just turn it back to what it was.

[GlenDownUnder]

Hi everyone.

This topic has compelled me to register after several years of casual browsing!

I understand the desire for mixed up grids because it never fails to provide excitement.

Here's my proposal for an alternative quali format. Feel free to critique.

Since for this season we already have 3 dry weather compounds selected for each race weekend this offers us the following possibility:

Retain the 2015 qualification framework of 3 sessions where the slowest drivers are eliminated at the end of each session but add the following restrictions:

In Q1 only the softest compound may be used.
In Q2 only the "middle" compound may be used.
In Q3 only the hardest compound may be used.

Eliminated drivers retain their fastest lap times.
Drivers that qualify for the next phase have their times deleted.
At the end of Q3 the grid is ordered by the fastest overall times.

Because of the varying time differences between the tyre compounds chosen for a particular track, the potential is there for drivers eliminated in Q1 or Q2 to have a better lap time than those achieved by those in the latter stages of qualifying.

Thoughts?

[Fulcrum]

How about:

- Pirelli supplies a super durable tyre, or the most durable tyre available, for Q1, Q2 and Q3.
- All cars are filled for the duration of each qualifying session; i.e. approximately 10-15 laps worth of fuel.
- All cars must circulate on track without pitting for the duration of qualifying or until eliminated.
- Have a ballast system for the tyres; i.e. allow drivers to go out on whatever tyre they like, but if you use SS then you have to carry an additional X kg of fuel as an equalization penalty.

This would achieve a number of things.

- The track will never be empty; it will in fact be full.
- Times can improve with each passing lap, subject to Pirelli providing rubber that degrades less than the fuel burn-off effect, and subject to team/driver preferences and equalisation penalties.
- There will be fewer situations where a driver is unaware or unable to do anything about being in the 'drop zone'.
- The potential for cars that are more kind to their tyres to qualify higher.
- The potential for slight mix ups in grid formation will exist if you consider drivers may have to deal with more traffic than usual.

[zac510]

I think it wasn't broken.

No one complained about how Qualifying was before.

Just turn it back to what it was.

I agree, fundamentally the recent qualifying rules worked well. The problem is not in the qualifying rules - it is in the technical rules. At the moment we have cars whose qualifying setups are optimized for the race. Due to things like the gearbox/engine rules, fixed front:rear bias, restricted DRS usage, etc there is limited ability to tune the car for outright qualifying pace. Tuning the car for qualifying pace would be at the detriment of race pace, but hopefully some teams would take a gamble occasionally and shoot for pole. This would be another way to mix up the grid as a fast Saturday car would be slow on Sunday and vice versa.

I also think the technical rules are much easier to change. The teams are often happy to have more freedom and to the majority of the fans, small tweaks of non-visual technical rules do not matter so they don't need to be explained.

Rules like 3 tyres in qualifying, no refuelling, fixed gearing have done a good job of making it harder to find the balance between the perfect saturday and sunday setup, but I think the technical rules could definitely go much further in this direction.

[danielk]

Just something I've been thinking about because let's be honest anything is better than this pile of crap quali they have introduced.

Introduce a separate points table for quali.

1st = 5
2nd = 4
3rd = 3
4th = 2
5th = 1

On accumilation of 20 quali points you are prohibited from running the softer tires in one of the following quali sessions. To be served within 2 GP weekends.

I know not pure racing but I think I would much prefer this than anything they have come up with so far.

[Manu_Forti]

Just mandate that all drivers must set at least one flying lap in each quarter of the hour to guarantee track action. Simple.

If you think they won't just do a 2minute 'flying' lap on worn old tyres in each of the first 3 15 minute blocks then you're kidding yourself. It's not simple just because you wrote Simple with a capital letter and put a period at the end. There is always some other issue or way to exploit the rule that they need to defend against with more rules unfortunately.

Never said they wouldnt. My point was making qualfying a full hour inseatd of the elimination format. And you could easily make a rule that says they must make a run on fresh tyres in each quarter of the session. Myabe even aggregate the times. That way the driver is assesed over the full hour and not the two or three flying laps he is allowed currently.

Do you have any suggestions yourself ??

[Just_a_fan]

I think it wasn't broken.

No one complained about how Qualifying was before.

Just turn it back to what it was.

It was changed because Bernie wanted to increase the chance that Mercedes wouldn't be on the front row. That's it. No other reason. All of the other ideas people come out with are even more complicated, just as contrived and fail to improve anything.

[mertol]

How about that:
Have the exact same format as before the retarded change BUT:
At the end of the session all the drivers climb on the parade truck and make a lap around the track. While on the truck they throw a couple of dices big enough to be seen from the grandstands. The sum of the dices is then added to their lap times as tenths. This ensures both mixing up of the grid and the drivers trying hard as they can't know their position until after the end (unless they have a full second advantage).

[zac510]

Just mandate that all drivers must set at least one flying lap in each quarter of the hour to guarantee track action. Simple.

If you think they won't just do a 2minute 'flying' lap on worn old tyres in each of the first 3 15 minute blocks then you're kidding yourself. It's not simple just because you wrote Simple with a capital letter and put a period at the end. There is always some other issue or way to exploit the rule that they need to defend against with more rules unfortunately.

Never said they wouldnt. My point was making qualfying a full hour inseatd of the elimination format. And you could easily make a rule that says they must make a run on fresh tyres in each quarter of the session. Myabe even aggregate the times. That way the driver is assesed over the full hour and not the two or three flying laps he is allowed currently.

Do you have any suggestions yourself ??

Then it's getting away from KISS with layers of rules, etc

I do have a suggestion too just like I have a perfectly functional arsehole - it's 5 posts up from this one!

[Manu_Forti]

If you think they won't just do a 2minute 'flying' lap on worn old tyres in each of the first 3 15 minute blocks then you're kidding yourself. It's not simple just because you wrote Simple with a capital letter and put a period at the end. There is always some other issue or way to exploit the rule that they need to defend against with more rules unfortunately.

Never said they wouldnt. My point was making qualfying a full hour inseatd of the elimination format. And you could easily make a rule that says they must make a run on fresh tyres in each quarter of the session. Myabe even aggregate the times. That way the driver is assesed over the full hour and not the two or three flying laps he is allowed currently.

Do you have any suggestions yourself ??

Then it's getting away from KISS with layers of rules, etc

I do have a suggestion too just like I have a perfectly functional arsehole - it's 5 posts up from this one!

You dont suggest anything in your post, its justs an opinion on current qualifying regulations in general. Show me where you suggest anything to improve the spectacle.

Struggling to find where anyone asked about your rectum though. Do you realise that this is what you wrote about your own post .. "I have a perfectly functional arsehole .. Its 5 posts up from this one!"

How right you are. Still feel clever ?? .. In fact dont bother. This forum was suggested to me as one that actually discussed F1. It seems to be more a group of self confessedc experts wasying bandwidth trying to make themselves look clever.

Better things to do. Enjoy.

[zac510]

It was only a play on the famous saying "Opinions are like arseholes - everyone has one."

[adrianjordan]

Simple solution. Back to last year's system, but allow an extra PU per driver that is only for use in quali!!

Let's see how fast the teams can go when they're not worried about their engine detonating.

And allow them to change setup between quali and race.

[smellybeard]

How about:
All cars are filled for the duration of each qualifying session; i.e. approximately 10-15 laps worth of fuel.

That sounds interesting - and doable.
I recall there used to be a 'fuel burning phase' during the early years of knockout qualifying that was like watching paint dry but the current 90 second system might interact with that in a positive way.

[FrukostScones]

How about:
All cars are filled for the duration of each qualifying session; i.e. approximately 10-15 laps worth of fuel.
-

That sounds interesting - and doable.
I recall there used to be a 'fuel burning phase' during the early years of knockout qualifying that was like watching paint dry but the current 90 second system might interact with that in a positive way.

yeah ,the rules just need an added parahgrap that during each sessison no refueling is allowed.

would open some great fuel tactics.