Another reason to suggest Max Mosely should quit?

[Carlos]

F1 is owned by CVC Partners a US private equity fund that is worth almost 30 billion US dollars, Bernie Ecclestone owns a piece of one of the holding companies, he has his beak in the money, no one knows how much, Max Mosley can do and say as he likes, make F1 rules as long as profits increase, he's realy just an errand boy, a minor clerk, a fixer at most. If his ideas are good for the money, he stays. But the money has not been so good, do a little research in the magazine F1Business. I t may look like he is elected, money and influence may have a little to do with that. His future is limited because his usefulness is almost at an end.

[Ray]

I'm pretty sure SZ is saying that F1 must always have a link to road cars otherwise it becomes alien to the public. There are many engineers now, people here at my university, working to make F1 more efficient, with advanced flywheels, regenerative braking and even bio fuels in some motorsport. And if this works in F1 that thin link to what you drive to work suddenly becomes crucial.

Ray will probably remember when the FW14b revolutionised motoracing when it introduced traction control. That Williams holds a direct link to the system you find in your Lexus and BMW nowadays. The same with Semi-Auto gearboxes and CVT to a lesser extent. Just think, suppose the systems worked on today that appears in a racing car tomorrow allows teams to reduce the fuel tank (and fuel consumption) by 25% or more, that technology will filter down to road cars in a year and in 20 years every car will have that system.

Every car on the road producing 25% less emissions would have a huge and positive effect on the environment and it all started becase that F1 car kept the link between racing and road cars.

F1 is about evolving, from cigars with thin tyres, rearranging the engine, introducing aerodynamics, wider tyres, eventually F1 will need to evolve to meet new demands. Most of the changes that have been made to an F1 car are to increase the chances of survival, now they have to do this on a much larger scale. A global scale.

Good points Tom. My beef is that is seems as though he's trying to stop ALL development. They need some freedoms to research things other than how many races an engine can last. We have reliable cars already. Traction control was a definite plus, I don't dispute that. But the way cars are going, they are giving a false sense of security. All this electronic help is fooling the masses into thinking they will be totally saved by their car is dire situations. Safety reasons aside. We need to teach safe driving practices at the same time. Hell, here I bet 2/3 of the populace can't tell you how to get out of a spin. Or correct for one.

I just want to see the fastest cars on earth, not a spec series. F1 is a racing series. Let them be race cars, and not something along the lines of a Prius. NASCAR could be a big help too. Aero on those things are so close it's a joke. Same engines, same body, same cars. It's getting lame.

[SZ]

tom, yes, that's the crux of it.

Good points Tom. My beef is that is seems as though he's trying to stop ALL development. They need some freedoms to research things other than how many races an engine can last. We have reliable cars already. Traction control was a definite plus, I don't dispute that. But the way cars are going, they are giving a false sense of security. All this electronic help is fooling the masses into thinking they will be totally saved by their car is dire situations. Safety reasons aside. We need to teach safe driving practices at the same time. Hell, here I bet 2/3 of the populace can't tell you how to get out of a spin. Or correct for one.

I just want to see the fastest cars on earth, not a spec series. F1 is a racing series. Let them be race cars, and not something along the lines of a Prius. NASCAR could be a big help too. Aero on those things are so close it's a joke. Same engines, same body, same cars. It's getting lame.

no he's not trying to stop all development. the day F1 goes from being a prototype series to being a spec series that no longer has clearly more performance than the series that feed it, then max, bernie, CVC, everyone will know they've lost the plot.

their point is that at the moment we're still too far over the other end of the scale. it's a prototype comp, sure, but there's such a developed quantity of technology in the sport at the moment - such a quantity and quality required to be competitive - that too few teams are in the hunt. at all. that not how many teams were seriously in the hunt this year? really? out of how many teams? without the spy saga and fernando going apeshit it'd have been an OK season at best, and it'd set the template for another however many years of two-team dominance. by which point noone gives a damn how many people can get out of a spin, they don't give a damn about f1. less sponsors, less cash, public opinion goes down, sport enters death spiral, end.

so think positively. new aero rules, greener engines that are cheaper, etc. it has to be fast or noone will give a damn, but the grid DOES have to bunch up - keep a pecking order for the genuinely competitive teams, but closer racing, make it more amenable to overtaking.

to compare it to a prius is laughable and to think these changes would stop development is naiive. there are teams too tied to the sport with too much money invested in resources that need to used - there will be avenues for development, they've just got to allow for competitive performance levels that are more accessible to those teams lesser resourced.

and if f1 can look a little greener and be a little more relevant to the masses, all the better. more sponsorship $, more technology to filter down, more interest.

[Belatti]

F1 is owned by CVC Partners a US private equity fund that is worth almost 30 billion US dollars, Bernie Ecclestone owns a piece of one of the holding companies, he has his beak in the money, no one knows how much, Max Mosley can do and say as he likes, make F1 rules as long as profits increase, he's realy just an errand boy, a minor clerk, a fixer at most. If his ideas are good for the money, he stays. But the money has not been so good, do a little research in the magazine F1Business. I t may look like he is elected, money and influence may have a little to do with that. His future is limited because his usefulness is almost at an end.

=D>

I have always had those paranoia thoughts that everything is controlled by people you don´t know and that people exposed are just puppets.
I even thought that presidents have always been puppets mastered by higher men that live in secret places in the world. Its a childish idea, I know but thats what I felt since I was a kid.

[Carlos]

Belatti I don't think it is naive or childish to admit that many things in the world are not based on fairness and justice. I admire your principles. Your firm belief that people, and individual effort can make a difference.

[Scuderia_Russ]

crap re your green argument ray.

f1 isn't sustainable as a form of competition based about core technologies that are increasingly less relevant to the public, not from a lot of perspectives.

I'm sorry, what? I don't understand a single thing that you said.

That explains a few things.

[Ray]

crap re your green argument ray.

f1 isn't sustainable as a form of competition based about core technologies that are increasingly less relevant to the public, not from a lot of perspectives.

I'm sorry, what? I don't understand a single thing that you said.

That explains a few things.

Well, that really isn't correct grammar. So I misunderstood the point he was trying to make.

But after lengthy consideration, you guys are right. It can't be anything but good the direction that F1 is headed. But I still don't like Max, and you can't make me! I just hope the racing doesn't suffer trying to make the sport more 'green.'

[Scuderia_Russ]

I just hope the racing doesn't suffer trying to make the sport more 'green.'

If the sport isn't made "more green" then it might very well not exist in a few years time. Then, the racing suffering is the least of the sports problems. Thankfully Max and Bernie have been taking part in a carbon offsetting scheme which however effective or not is our counter argument to the tree huggers that will claim we are wrecking the planet for sport. (While you can't hear the screams now they will only get louder and louder.) Things like introducing a percentage of bio fuel (again how effective bio fuel really is in terms of really reducing fossil fuel emissions is yet to be seen) and talk of regenerative systems on the car all serve to protect the sport against the inevitable future attack that is soon to be unleashed on motor sport as a whole!

...And I'm sorry Ray but in my opinion, arm chair heroes such as your self are failing to see the bigger picture and the constantly calling for Max Mosely's head is getting really boring now.

[Ray]

You know Russ, I have my opinion and you have yours. I don't like Max, and I want him gone. You don't. I don't see how blasting my opinion and effectively calling my baseless, biased and wrong makes yours worth more than mine. I don't like him, and I sure as hell don't like being told I'm the one destroying the world by the likes of people who fly in private jets the world over. And I'm not an arm chair hero, I'm voicing my opinion. I'd appreciate if you didn't insult me based on my opinion. Right or wrong, it's what I think.

[Tom]

Hey Russ mate, calm down, Ray just stated his opinion and you shot him down, then he refreshed his opinon and you shot him down again.

I can sse both sides of your point, F1 should deffinetly go greener but then again Max an co. have this fantastic way to clowd everything they touch in controversy.

I've said before that F1 would do well to make a huge effort to make the circuits (press buildings, grandstands, commentary booths, paddock etc) as eco friendly as possible. I think this would save money and make a big contribution to the environment.
Doubtless the cars must become better too as this is what the spectators see, the cars set the example for the spectators.

[Carlos]

F1 is already an EcoGreenSport, probably 20 or 30 million people watch every race instead of getting into the car and going for a Sunday drive. Thats Green

On to the important stuff. Did Max enjoy breakfast today? Haven't heard him comment. Did Manchild post today? Why is Ray's cat eating a cob of corn? Is it an EcoGreen Kitty?

[DaveKillens]

It's easy to vilify Max, there's so many reasons and excuses. Face it, the man is a lightning rod for controversy. And I stand among those who do not want him around. But we need to examine his abilities and accomplishments, because Max has a lot behind him. He played a key role in drafting the Concorde Agreement, the framework that governs F1. Without that in place, who knows what future F1 might have held. But I do believe it would be much less a success than it is without the Concorde. And in the years Max and Bernie have run the show, the racing has been good, exciting, and growing in popularity.
Now back to the present, and the future. Big changes are happening, and it's close to the time for Max to step down. But beware what you wish for, it may be an unpleasant surprise. Because the man who probably succeeds him will be Jean Todt.

[Scuderia_Russ]

Hey Russ mate, calm down, Ray just stated his opinion and you shot him down, then he refreshed his opinon and you shot him down again.

I like to be thorough.

[HKS]

I reckon we were here to discuss about Max

[Ray]

Hey Russ mate, calm down, Ray just stated his opinion and you shot him down, then he refreshed his opinon and you shot him down again.

I like to be thorough.

Don't forget rude and insulting without provocation. I revised my opinion and yet you still insulted me, and wouldn't take my change of heart, well to heart and let it go.