2017-2020 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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Raleigh
Raleigh
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Joined: 29 Jul 2014, 15:36

Re: Proposed 2017 F1 Aerodynamic Changes

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Juzh wrote:
wuzak wrote:
CBeck113 wrote: + bring back long-lasting sticky tires
They don't really exist. Tyres will always degrade as they are used. The question is how much that degradation compares to the time gain from fuel usage lowering the car's weight. And then the equation is can the extra performance of new tyres compensate for an extra pit stop.
.
"they don't exist" aka pirelli is sh!t at making f1 tires.
2010 bridgestones disagree with that statement. I specifically remember turkey 2010 qualifying. RB6 taking turn 8 flat every single time racking up lap after lap, getting faster and faster. Pirellis would simply melt.
2006 michelins were also bulletproof.
Have to remember, Pirelli was asked to make tires that degraded quickly . If they'd been asked to make bulletproof tires you can run for the entire race without noticeable dropoff that would be possible too.

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Juzh
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Joined: 06 Oct 2012, 08:45

Re: Proposed 2017 F1 Aerodynamic Changes

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Raleigh wrote:
Juzh wrote:
wuzak wrote:
"they don't exist" aka pirelli is sh!t at making f1 tires.
2010 bridgestones disagree with that statement. I specifically remember turkey 2010 qualifying. RB6 taking turn 8 flat every single time racking up lap after lap, getting faster and faster. Pirellis would simply melt.
2006 michelins were also bulletproof.
Have to remember, Pirelli was asked to make tires that degraded quickly . If they'd been asked to make bulletproof tires you can run for the entire race without noticeable dropoff that would be possible too.
We've seen tires like to explode should you run them "too long".

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Thunder
Moderator
Joined: 06 Feb 2013, 09:50
Location: Germany

Re: Proposed 2017 F1 Aerodynamic Changes

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http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-te ... es-682898/

I don't even know what to say anymore.
turbof1 wrote: YOU SHALL NOT......STALLLLL!!!
#aerogollum

wuzak
wuzak
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Joined: 30 Aug 2011, 03:26

Re: Proposed 2017 F1 Aerodynamic Changes

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It goes to show the faith the FIA have in Pirelli.

bhall II
bhall II
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Joined: 19 Jun 2014, 20:15

Re: Proposed 2017 F1 Aerodynamic Changes

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Thunders wrote:I don't even know what to say anymore.
clus·ter·f*ck

/ˈkləstərˌfək/

noun US vulgar slang

noun: clusterf*ck; plural noun: clusterf*cks; noun: cluster-f*ck; plural noun: cluster-f*cks

a disastrously mishandled situation or undertaking.

mrluke
mrluke
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Joined: 22 Nov 2013, 20:31

Re: Proposed 2017 F1 Aerodynamic Changes

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Not unreasonable that Pirelli want a car to test with if 5 seconds are supposed to come off the lap times.

Infact I would say its pretty retarded to not let Pirelli have a car to test and will just mean that 2017 is a season of whining about the tyres not being soft enough or being too hard.

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Andres125sx
166
Joined: 13 Aug 2013, 10:15
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Proposed 2017 F1 Aerodynamic Changes

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bhall II wrote:
Thunders wrote:I don't even know what to say anymore.
clus·ter·f*ck

/ˈkləstərˌfək/

noun US vulgar slang

noun: clusterf*ck; plural noun: clusterf*cks; noun: cluster-f*ck; plural noun: cluster-f*cks

a disastrously mishandled situation or undertaking.
I didn´t reply becasue didn´t know how to express this in english. Next time I´ll know :mrgreen:

My only doubt is if you´re refering to Pirelli, the new tire regulatinons, the new regulations as a whole, or the whole F1? :twisted:

trinidefender
trinidefender
317
Joined: 19 Apr 2013, 20:37

Re: Proposed 2017 F1 Aerodynamic Changes

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What exactly was wrong with the tyre war? Just part of competition if you ask me. Right now there is no drive for Pirelli to produce better tyres as long as people aren't grumbling to much. When we have tyre manufacturers squaring off with each other we got a scenario that drives development.

ripper
ripper
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Joined: 26 Aug 2015, 22:19

Re: Proposed 2017 F1 Aerodynamic Changes

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I personally dislike tyre war because a fundamental part of the car is totally out of your control. If one supplier is much better than others the teams that have chosen that manufacturer will have an advantage given by a right contractual choice. It isn't something you can develop, it's an advantage you have or you haven't.

With one supplier everyone is on the same level and every team can find its own solutions to extract maximum performance from same equipment.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: Proposed 2017 F1 Aerodynamic Changes

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trinidefender wrote:What exactly was wrong with the tyre war? Just part of competition if you ask me. Right now there is no drive for Pirelli to produce better tyres as long as people aren't grumbling to much. When we have tyre manufacturers squaring off with each other we got a scenario that drives development.
The last time we had a tyre war it benefitted one team greatly. Bridgestone were supplying tyres specifically for Ferrari and the other teams didn't get a say in the development. That, along with unlimited testing gave Ferrari a huge advantage that needed a massive rule change to overcome.

Today, you'd likely see Ferrari with one tyre, Mercedes with another and everyone else taking what they're given. So, no different to today in competition terms.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

trinidefender
trinidefender
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Joined: 19 Apr 2013, 20:37

Re: Proposed 2017 F1 Aerodynamic Changes

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ripper wrote:I personally dislike tyre war because a fundamental part of the car is totally out of your control. If one supplier is much better than others the teams that have chosen that manufacturer will have an advantage given by a right contractual choice. It isn't something you can develop, it's an advantage you have or you haven't.

With one supplier everyone is on the same level and every team can find its own solutions to extract maximum performance from same equipment.
By that logic everything that is generally outsourced on most teams should be all from the same manufacturer for all teams. Brake pads and disks, the rims, the entire PU, fasteners, nuts and bolts, the fuels, lubricants and hydraulic/brake fluids, paint and the big ones that people don't realise, the raw metals that are milled and carbon fibre/Kevlar sheets used to make bodywork, chassis and parts for the car.

All of this is outsourced to outside companies (even if they work closely with them) with maybe the largest teams doing some of these parts themselves such as milling their own fasteners and nuts/bolts.

Part of running a good racing team is who you choose to partner yourself with. Who you have as a partner is sometimes, but not always, far more than a marketing exercise.

We have reached a point where race jouro's are pretty reliably calling teams tyre strategies before the race. If everybody generally knows what everybody else is going to do then the racing gets more boring. In addition to that people are talking about overtaking, the more of a spec series we have the more that different teams will converge on the same solutions. Teams will be running similar strategies at similar speeds, as a result, genuine overtakes (not through DRS or pit stops) is reduced because cars tyres generally degrade at the same rate.

When we have different tyre manufacturers things get a bit more mixed up.

Lastly, F1 wants to tout itself as a sport where technology trickles down to road cars eventually. At present a lot of the opposite is happening. The FIA seems to be obsessed with trying this smoke and mirrors trick of making the trickle down effect to be working yet that can only go so far. If they really want to see a trickle down effect on a tyre level, ya know, what they blab on about, then having multiple manufacturers competing with each other and improving tyre technology is the only way to do it (even if a lot of it doesn't actually apply to road car technology).

trinidefender
trinidefender
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Joined: 19 Apr 2013, 20:37

Re: Proposed 2017 F1 Aerodynamic Changes

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Just_a_fan wrote:
trinidefender wrote:What exactly was wrong with the tyre war? Just part of competition if you ask me. Right now there is no drive for Pirelli to produce better tyres as long as people aren't grumbling to much. When we have tyre manufacturers squaring off with each other we got a scenario that drives development.
The last time we had a tyre war it benefitted one team greatly. Bridgestone were supplying tyres specifically for Ferrari and the other teams didn't get a say in the development. That, along with unlimited testing gave Ferrari a huge advantage that needed a massive rule change to overcome.

Today, you'd likely see Ferrari with one tyre, Mercedes with another and everyone else taking what they're given. So, no different to today in competition terms.
We see the same situation these days with the PU. Oddly enough how the unlimited testing helped Ferrari before, extremely limited testing and the token system is helping Merc engined cars and specifically the Merc team now. It is hampering development of the other PU manufacturers.

Yet nobody is calling for there to be one PU across all teams. If that did happen I would immediately stop watching F1. Many including myself are interested in F1 because of the technology involved although I may seem that WEC might soon be the better option for that. Sad.

kooleracer
kooleracer
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Joined: 05 Jan 2012, 16:07

Re: Proposed 2017 F1 Aerodynamic Changes

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http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/analy ... rs-682998/
Formula 1 drivers could experience sustained forces of more than 5.5G during cornering next season, according to the latest simulation data produced on the 2017 cars.
I welcome this a lot actually. I remember the days in early 2000 until the refueling ban how physically demanding a F1 race was for drivers. Needing to rest in the car for a few seconds to catch they breath after a race. Nowadays, everyone just hopes out like they did a Sunday stroll through the park. Also this again will bring back the step that is required for F1 to distinguish it self from GP2 and other junior categories. I really hope that FIA, stands strong and keep these regulations. Because F1 needs to be physically more demanding then it has been after the refueling ban. Races like Singapore and Malaysia used to be grueling for the drivers, I want that mental aspect back in F1. Drivers making mistakes because of the physical demands, the public wil respect F1 drivers a lot more if they see that the drivers really have to work for it and if they are tired at the end.
Irvine:"If you don't have a good car you can't win it, unless you are Michael or Senna. Lots of guys won in Adrian Newey's cars, big deal. Adrian is the real genius out there, there is Senna, there is Michael and there is Newey.They were the three great talents."

ojlopez
ojlopez
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Joined: 24 Oct 2014, 22:33
Location: Guatemala

Re: Proposed 2017 F1 Aerodynamic Changes

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I know this issue is not about aerodynamics, but what about increasing the minimum weight so drivers don't have to be short and lightweight like jockeys?

If the physical strain is increased, you need to have stronger drivers that aren't always on a diet.

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SectorOne
166
Joined: 26 May 2013, 09:51

Re: Proposed 2017 F1 Aerodynamic Changes

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Looking at Turn 3 at Barcelona, the data reveals that the current generation of cars are taking the corner flat out in fifth gear at about 240 km/h, with a loading of around 3G throughout.

However, the 2017 cars are predicted to be taking that corner at 275 km/h, with a lateral force of 5.5G.
Now that. Is totally outrageous.

I´m almost at the point where i´d say "F it, don´t care if there´s no overtakes, i just want to see THAT".
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"