The World Motor Sport Council has today formally approved the return of the Formula One qualifying system as it was used in 2015. This means the elimination of 6 cars in the first two parts of qualifying, before a shootout among 10 cars in the final session.
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ME4ME wrote:I actually enjoyed qualifying today. The new format has its problems, but there is some merit to it as well. Kvyat is out of position, Perez as well. Button under-delivered on the lap he got, and Wehrlein instead showed that if you do a decent first lap you get the chance to do another one and improve. Overall I do still prefer last years qualifying system. Crofty and Brundle especially were way too grumpy today though.
Great laps today be Hamilton and Ricciardo.
Isn't the whole point of qualifying to rank the grid from fastest to slowest? This system comprehensively fails at this while at the same point offering none of the merits of a 1 lap shootout style of qualifying.
Well yes. But F1 chiefs and the promotors weren't happy with cars qualifying 2by2 in the teams competitive order. If the aim was to mix things up, then to a certain extent they've succeeded. But obviously it has taken som excitement out of traditional qualifying.
Surely they will change back to the older format soon enough, but with this new format, How much of what we saw on TV yesterday was any different to what would have happened last year.
Most of the time the camera's were on the Mercs and Ferrari's, the 4 drivers in these teams all did 13/14 laps and we got to see a few of the slower teams as they were being eliminated. Nothing really that different from a TV perspective.
They should just go back to the old format though, simpler and equally effective at producing mixed grids. i have to say though, the new format is better than the 80's style of 1 open hour. The open hour with a limit of 12 laps per driver was dull, its only exciting when you speak of Senna in the last possible second topping the timing sheets. So 1 hour to see a 90 second lap! not good!
How about a new idea of , Q1 and Q2 the same as last year, but Q3 extended to 20mins with 6 cars, after 5minutes a car is eliminated ever 3 minutes. But the big twist being, each time the 3 mins pass, the times are reset. So in Q3 the pole man would have done 5 timed laps. Meaning Tyre Deg is taken into account. Its crazy, but no more crazy than the current idea, and it gets the top boys on track longer.
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ME4ME wrote:I actually enjoyed qualifying today. The new format has its problems, but there is some merit to it as well. Kvyat is out of position, Perez as well. Button under-delivered on the lap he got, and Wehrlein instead showed that if you do a decent first lap you get the chance to do another one and improve. Overall I do still prefer last years qualifying system. Crofty and Brundle especially were way too grumpy today though.
Great laps today be Hamilton and Ricciardo.
Isn't the whole point of qualifying to rank the grid from fastest to slowest? This system comprehensively fails at this while at the same point offering none of the merits of a 1 lap shootout style of qualifying.
Yes, and then we have lots of moaning because the quickest cars drive off into the distance with little happening behind?
It is obviously deemed that the race carries more weight in what it should deliver, so artificially changing up qualifying to mess up the grid a bit has its clear purpose.
Imagine if Hamilton had lost so much time on his excursion on his first lap in Q3 that he would have been the first car to be eliminated. Then he'd had started 8th instead of pole = exciting race prospects. This is precisely what this new qualifying aims to provoke.
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I really cannot add to the debate on the new format as I watched some of it in Australia, got bored and skipped it in Barhain. The best solution to the qualifying problem is if fans simply stop watching. Then the powers that be will be forced to act. Sadly, most of us love the sport too much to switch off so we are caught up in an abusive relationship.
So after today's meeting in Bahrain it appears a return to the 2015 format is off the cards completely. According to Sky Sport there's a vote this Thursday for a completely new system:
"...the proposal on the table involves lengthening Q1 and Q2 by one minute each, but retaining the 2016 system. Q3 would then be based on an aggregate time of two laps, with Pirelli providing an extra set of tyres for the drivers second runs."
So we get to see an empty track for an extra two minutes, and then do some arithmetic throughout Q3 to see who's where after two laps.... how exciting...
ME4ME wrote:
Imagine if Hamilton had lost so much time on his excursion on his first lap in Q3 that he would have been the first car to be eliminated. Then he'd had started 8th instead of pole = exciting race prospects. This is precisely what this new qualifying aims to provoke.
Exciting? Nico would have an easy win in the bag with no pressure from the guy in the same car. Same goes for if it was the other way around. However put both Mercedes cars 8th and 9th then it would be exciting.
Exciting? Nico would have an easy win in the bag with no pressure from the guy in the same car. Same goes for if it was the other way around. However put both Mercedes cars 8th and 9th then it would be exciting.
That's the entire issue of making something exciting and qualifying.
If the fastest starts first then the race will never really be excited.
How can we have spectacle combined with an interesting qualifying format.
It would be much easier if performance of cars are much closer to each other, race tracks with overtaking possibilities.
Even in qualifying system of 2015 we had sometimes drivers which preferred just to do 1 timed lap because they know that they won't fight for first place. This did not change in 2016. They don't seem to care if they are 12th or 15th.
ARF1 wrote:So after today's meeting in Bahrain it appears a return to the 2015 format is off the cards completely. According to Sky Sport there's a vote this Thursday for a completely new system:
"...the proposal on the table involves lengthening Q1 and Q2 by one minute each, but retaining the 2016 system. Q3 would then be based on an aggregate time of two laps, with Pirelli providing an extra set of tyres for the drivers second runs."
So we get to see an empty track for an extra two minutes, and then do some arithmetic throughout Q3 to see who's where after two laps.... how exciting...
is this for real???
Todt is such a weak pussy.
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.
ARF1 wrote:So after today's meeting in Bahrain it appears a return to the 2015 format is off the cards completely. According to Sky Sport there's a vote this Thursday for a completely new system:
"...the proposal on the table involves lengthening Q1 and Q2 by one minute each, but retaining the 2016 system. Q3 would then be based on an aggregate time of two laps, with Pirelli providing an extra set of tyres for the drivers second runs."
So we get to see an empty track for an extra two minutes, and then do some arithmetic throughout Q3 to see who's where after two laps.... how exciting...
For me, I'd stick with the 2015 format, but eliminate parc ferme after qualifying. Let the teams change the set up between qually and the race and you might get some cars faster in race than qually trim. Just enforce a reasonable curfew so teams aren't working all night. At the moment we line up the cars in the order of fastest to slowest in race trim, and wonder why they disappear into the sunset on Sundays.
I'm trying to decide if Bernie and Todt are being serious or just playing a game now.
New qualifying is awful, teams agree to revert back, B&T won't allow it; qualifying is awful again, teams agree to revert back again, B&T propose to somehow make it even worse.
Seriously, who looked at the new qualifying format and decided that "2 lap aggregate timing" would be the thing to make it better?
Kimi as usual is the voice of reason and got straight to the point .In reference to qualifying :
"There is so much politics and bullshit in F1 that it is crazy sometimes," he said. "People from the outside must look at us and think 'what stupid people, what are they doing?'.
