New qualifying format...

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Henk
Henk
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Joined: 19 May 2015, 13:22

Re: New qualifying format...

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The Bahrein qualifying showed the good and the bad of the new format. There are still a lot of problems but there are definitely things that are better than 2015 qualifying. I would like to keep those things because I enjoy them profoundly. Martin Brundle keeps repeating that he wants to see cars out on track on a hot lap but fails to look at his screen.

I have never seen a Manor on a hot lap in 2015. Last weekend I was able to see a full lap of Wehrlein in Q1. Toro Rosso left it late in Q1 and I got to see a full lap where one mistake would have knocked them out in Q1. We were robbed of one lap because FI failed to send Perez out. Add the laps of all the teams right at the start of qualifying and you have 3 complete hot laps on tv.

In the old system we would see cars on the Softs doing 2 or 3 laps with cool down laps and an overall mess on track for 12 minutes with cars that have no pressure getting to Q2. Then the bottom teams and the teams that messed up bolt on a set of Supersofts and try to do a lap, all in the same timeframe. This means you are either looking at one lap or all cars crossing the finish line in 30 seconds. These are the only laps that actually count. Every lap before that had no pressure because the track is the fastest at the end.

In Q2 and Q3 we also got to see a better distribution of the laps. With Ricciardo leaving it at one lap in Q3 and the Toro Rosso's gambling on one lap in Q2. This middle part used to be empty. If Ricciardo was 3 tenths faster or Hamilton 3 tenths slower the grid would have been shaken up in the way the promoters want. In a fair way because it was the driver who made the mistake.

There is an other problem with reverting to the 2015 rules because of the tires. Teams have no incentive to use the Softs in Q1. All the top teams will just wait until there is a bit less action on track, 5 minutes from the end, and do one lap on the Supersofts. In Q2 the same will probably happen for the top 4 teams. If Hamilton makes a mistake on the first lap in Q3 and Ricciardo does a great lap, Hamilton gets to fix that.

The problem with the current system is that the last 3 minutes of every session are empty. To fix that, you could just start eliminating cars 3 minutes later. With a few tweaks this format could be better for TV during qualifying and spice up the race in a fair way. Reverting to the old format would be a missed opportunity.
Manoah2u wrote: don't do 90-second elimination, do a 180-second elimination. or make the q1-q3 event a single grand qually event and make it a 200-second elimination event. every 200 seconds the bottom driver is eliminated, end.

a restricted amount of tire usage but a mandated amount of runs every qually session will see drivers oblidged to go out on track and set a time. the maximum amount of tires they can use during qually makes it variable on whether their time will be enough.
I think this would bring too much red/yellow flag stress, unfair chaos in these cases and it wouldn't help to mix up the grid as much.

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mcjamweasel
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Joined: 18 Mar 2010, 15:23

Re: New qualifying format...

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Superpole.

Everyone does one out lap, one flying lap and one in lap. Time them so that TV can follow each car for the full lap. Have a random running order to throw in the odd curveball that Bernie is after.

Sevach
Sevach
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Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 17:00

Re: New qualifying format...

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The best "randomizer" would be one lap qualy, Q1 and Q2 2015 style.
After that the top 8 outlap, flyer, in lap.
One car on track at a time.

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djos
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Joined: 19 May 2006, 06:09
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: New qualifying format...

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If they really want to make it more exciting, all they need to do is reimplement the 2015 system but turn q3 into a one lap shootout format!

This part was great back in the v10 days!
"In downforce we trust"

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strad
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Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 01:57

Re: New qualifying format...

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1 hour.. go out ... come in tinker, go back out ... all you want til you come up with the best time you can in that hour.
all else is foolishness.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

notsofast
notsofast
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Joined: 10 Oct 2012, 02:56

Re: New qualifying format...

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Yes, and parc ferme doesn't kick in until the end of the hour. If you want to set your best time in 30 minutes and spend the rest of the hour prepping the car for the race, go for it.

Sevach
Sevach
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Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 17:00

Re: New qualifying format...

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djos wrote:If they really want to make it more exciting, all they need to do is reimplement the 2015 system but turn q3 into a one lap shootout format!

This part was great back in the v10 days!
At least it's fair and straightforward, and if the objective is some variation it's even better than the average of the 2 best laps.

Btw with the "average system" what's stopping a guy from doing 3 runs? The smaller teams won't have enough fresh tires but the big teams might pull it off and open the gap even more... wouldn't that be hilarious =D>

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Hail22
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Joined: 08 Feb 2012, 07:22

Re: New qualifying format...

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Vasconia wrote:
giantfan10 wrote:Kimi as usual is the voice of reason and got straight to the point .In reference to qualifying :
"There is so much politics and bullshit in F1 that it is crazy sometimes," he said. "People from the outside must look at us and think 'what stupid people, what are they doing?'.
Good job Kimi, 100% agree.

Here we have shared some good ideas, perhaps we should lead FIA in a near future, no one can make a worse job than those guys.
Back in 2012, 2013 it was discussed that the FIA, FoM should be open to the idea of a "informed and knowledgeable" group of members from F1zone, F1technical and our friends in the UK. However it never gained traction. Let's face it, the top 1% will always want to control and dictate this business and those with the soul of F1 will always be kicked to the side of the kerb.

Let's hope the ongoing release of information in the Mossack Fonseca will create change as more 1%ers especially those who have their fingers in the Formula 1 pie are exposed for tax evasion / money laundering etc.
If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari.

Gilles Villeneuve

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GPR-A duplicate2
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Joined: 07 Aug 2014, 09:00

Re: New qualifying format...

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VETTEL: WITH THIS SH*T IDEA IT’S TIME TO GO TO THE CIRCUS
Vettel wrote:“It’s time to go to the circus,” Vettel sneered when asked about the idea of aggregating the drivers’ two best laptimes in the Q1, Q2 and Q3 sessions from China.

He is quoted by the Mirror: “It’s a good idea if you want random things to happen, but formula one should be about racing. It’s a sh*t idea.”
Toto Wolff wrote:“A simple explanation? Madness,” Mercedes chief Toto Wolff is quoted by AFP news agency when asked how F1 got itself into this situation.

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Vasconia
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Joined: 30 Aug 2012, 10:45
Location: Basque Country

Re: New qualifying format...

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GPR-A wrote:VETTEL: WITH THIS SH*T IDEA IT’S TIME TO GO TO THE CIRCUS
Vettel wrote:“It’s time to go to the circus,” Vettel sneered when asked about the idea of aggregating the drivers’ two best laptimes in the Q1, Q2 and Q3 sessions from China.

He is quoted by the Mirror: “It’s a good idea if you want random things to happen, but formula one should be about racing. It’s a sh*t idea.”
Toto Wolff wrote:“A simple explanation? Madness,” Mercedes chief Toto Wolff is quoted by AFP news agency when asked how F1 got itself into this situation.
Vettel´s point of view is usually quite reasonable, he seems to like classic things in F1.

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FW17
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Joined: 06 Jan 2010, 10:56

Re: New qualifying format...

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I like the aggregate idea; I just hope it is 2 separate runs and 2 consecutive laps.

It is going to be a real nut cracker when it happens

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strad
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Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 01:57

Re: New qualifying format...

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I agree with Vettel
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

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914hald
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Joined: 14 Mar 2016, 21:17
Location: Danmark

Re: New qualifying format...

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What about 3 lap quali, same principle as 2015, just with 3 Hot laps in a row and then take the average of the 3 times, in q1 q2 and then one lap shoot out in q3 ?

I think this will give more running on the track, and 3 laps at max to get the best averrage time would spice up the action

mrluke
mrluke
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Joined: 22 Nov 2013, 20:31

Re: New qualifying format...

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Sevach wrote:The best "randomizer" would be one lap qualy, Q1 and Q2 2015 style.
After that the top 8 outlap, flyer, in lap.
One car on track at a time.
+12

Said it a few times but it doesn't seem to get much resonance here.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: New qualifying format...

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Here's a left-field idea: 20 drivers, 20 races so each driver starts from a different grid slot each race. Everyone has one pole, one P2 etc. Ignore Monaco because grid position is everything there - just run it as a non-championship race.

Everyone gets to see a variety of drivers racing from throughout the grid. Simple.

Only thing that needs to be determined is who starts the first race in pole. Perhaps just a lucky dip, name out of the hat type thing.

Some might be unlucky and suffer a failure on their pole race but that's unlikely these days.

One benefit would be that the teams would have to design cars that perform in close company with other cars. If they didn't, the drivers would struggle to gain places.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.