Intake Valve and Feliks' ideas

[jgredline]

very cool topic and very enjoyable to read through.

[Feliks]

I reference this version:


regards Andrew

[HKS]

G'day folks, wonder if you can clarify something for my good self.

I've been reading 'Vehicle and Engine Technology' by Heinz Heisler (M.Sc., B.Sc., F.I.M.I., M.I.R.T.E.) which says, regarding air pressure inside a 4 stroke petrol engine induction stroke,...

The piston descends, moving away from the cylinder head. The speed of the piston moving along the cylinder creates a pressure reduction or depression which reaches a maximum of about 0.3 bar below atmospheric pressure at one third from the beginning of the stroke. The depression actually generated will depend on the speed and load experienced by the engine, but a typical average value might be 0.12 bar below atmospheric pressure. This depression induces (sucks in) a fresh charge of air and atomised petrol [from the inlet valve.]

yet at an open day at a university I'm pretty sure a lecturer told us all that it was the high pressure just prior to the valve in the intake pipe that forced the air/fuel mix into the cylinder and that he had initially been taught the theory from this book but was corrected by a well known engine designer.

Can anyone confirm which is right? There's a chance I just missinterpreted the information and the lecturer didn't say this at all but was talking about a completely opposite area of the car.

Yes In the old carburettor engines I reckon this was the way way to suck in the A/F ratio. In carb. engines, the vaccuum of the combustion chamber pulled in the mixture.

So it is true that vaccuum is yet created in the C.C. as we haven't modified it while switching from carbs to FI.

[riff_raff]

Basic chemistry tells us that a gas will expand to fill a given volume. In the case of an recip piston engine, the gas in the intake manifold expands to fill the empty volume created by the piston descending in the cylinder. For an SI normally aspirated engine running at WOT conditions, manifold pressure is slightly below ambient atmospheric pressure. Disregarding of course, any supplemental effects such as ram, acoustics or charge inertias.

[riff_raff]

Yes In the old carburettor engines I reckon this was the way way to suck in the A/F ratio. In carb. engines, the vaccuum of the combustion chamber pulled in the mixture.

So it is true that vaccuum is yet created in the C.C. as we haven't modified it while switching from carbs to FI.

Schumi,

I don't think you got it quite right. To paraphrase an old joke: "It's not so much that the engine sucks, it's that the atmosphere blows!"

And you're confusing two different issues. With a carburetted SI engine, there is a venturi device in the carb that creates a low pressure region to draw fuel into the air stream from the fuel bowl. That is a necessary function for carburettor fuel metering.

With a fuel injected SI engine, the venturi is not necessary, but the engine still requires a throttle on the intake to control power output. And when the engine runs at part throttle conditions, the throttle creates manifold pressures below ambient (what you describe as a vacuum) at the intake valve.

So I would propose that it is the throttle device that creates the "vacuum" and not the piston.

[Carlos]

I wrote the most clever, humourous introduction to the progression of fuel atomization from Carburettor Types - Atomizer>Wick> Bowl/Needle/Jet, Air and Mechanical Fuel Pumps > Mechanical Fuel Injection, Electric Fuel Injection > Computerized Fuel Injection> Direct Injection. Even including a speculation on future advances in mammal reproduction paralleling these developements. ( humour, humour my friends )
BUT THE D--M BUGGY PHP FORUM SOFTWARE ATE IT
I KNOW WHAT THE MODERATORS SAY ABOUT CHECKING THE LITTLE BOX AND I DID
THIS FORUM IS FILLED WITH COCKRAOCH CODE PHP OUTSIDE THE DILIGENCE OF OUR MODERATOR/CODE ARCHITECTS. IMO
So you will just have to subsist on the authoritative linked articles.
Atomizer, Wick, Bowl/Jet/Needle Carb, Hand, Air & Mechanical Then Electric Pumps
http://www.motorera.com/history/hist04.htm
The Mostly American Carburetor ( Even spell it American)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carburetor
Mechanical/Electric/Electronic Computerized/ Direct Injection
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carburetor
EDIT March 9th 2008 - The above link is wrong, sort of a repo-typo - here's the one I mean't to use:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_injection
It's great to see this thread revived with both humour and attention to the technical.
An Amusing ( to some ) Article on a Bugatti Bicycle Engine with the Carburettor Bowl Cast Into The Engine Body ( Which may Amuse 1 out of 10,000 readers ) With Engineering Plans if you would like to build it. The most complicated small displacement motor I have ever seen.
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~pattl ... rc0393.htm
Although, to be honest, I suspect not more than 2 Forums Surfers to read even 2 links ( SIGH) Not to worry, Ill try not to write another detailed technical post since the Forum is now 80% Britney Spears type F1 gossip Humour fellow technophiles Humour ( SIGH )
Ciro- If you find an F1 Forum that is 80%+ Technical...send me email.

[Feliks]

You do not know accidentally where disappear two small valve pistons ???

Regards Andrew

[rjsa]

Yamaha uses a controlled link between opposite intake trumpets in the Max's V4 engine, wich would trigger after 6000rpm to use air inertia to push more gas (and o2) in.

[rjsa]

So I would propose that it is the throttle device that creates the "vacuum" and not the piston.

You tie a rope to the wall and pull it. Who is it stretching the rope, you or the wall? Both do.

The volume constrained between the throttle and the piston head is increasing rapidly while the crankshaft rotates, and the throttle is not allowing air in fast enough to keep pressure, so pressure falls. That's team work going on there.

[riff_raff]

http://home.people.net.au/~mrbdesign/PD ... echBRV.pdf

I know it's way late to reply, but I just have to. That Bishop rotary valve malbeare posted a link to earlier in this thread, is an exact knock-off of a rotary valve I patented over 15 years ago. My patent is US 5,052,349. It's expired now, so there is no infringement issues, but how about sending a little love my way.

I may be biased, but my design was better than the Bishop design in many respects. I had a lower friction sealing arrangement, I had a better combustion chamber shape and plug location, I had better cooling for the valve, and I had a one piece cylinder head design (very important for a fully stressed racing engine).

Of course, the one thing Bishop is obviously better than me at, is marketing!

[Feliks]

Litlle HorsePowerMeter

Tongues in engines manner of measurement of amount of mechanical horse.
Each engine owns invariable parameters about definite , like :
Sum of inertia mass, sum inertia springs, chains ,valves,etc.

Each model of engine has this parameters exactly SAME !!

And if for example, we want it without load for 4000 RPM ,at same time , we need exactly SAME horsepower.
It is principle my idea: Horse Power Meter.

Manner of measurement Horse Power:
Car is stop !!
We have running engine in idle RPM.
We need only same impulse classic RPM meter
Next we push and press i electronic meter switch "measurement"
Next we must push throttle in FULL .
Engine go to eg 5000 RPM.
Electronic measurement TIME with special SOFT , how long engine going measurement period 3000 rpm to 4000 rpm . This TIME are equivalent horsepower of engine.
Little power -long time , normal power - short time
Idea in diagram:



Next diagram electronic of Horsepower Meter, can made little 8 -bit processor eg. AT2051. Small individual Soft for each model of engine:




Engine is gauged in its time of measurement of force LOAD his own.
And it is not necessary has drive testing your car.

Happy Easter
Andrew :

[gtpumps]

I may be biased, but my design was better than the Bishop design in many respects. I had a lower friction sealing arrangement, I had a better combustion chamber shape and plug location, I had better cooling for the valve, and I had a one piece cylinder head design (very important for a fully stressed racing engine).

Of course, the one thing Bishop is obviously better than me at, is marketing!

The Bishop head is one piece. The picture in that article that may have given you the impression that it is two piece is in fact a sectioned view (of the one piece head) to show the sealing arrangement.

[Feliks]

On one of aerial forum, describing my horse power meter, it re-wrapped in discussion for transmit force for transmission in helicopters theme limitation , very often.
I read this forum and , I has been orientated , that transmission is critical element in helicopter most
Sometimes. at creation of new invention, inspiration takes place at I safety of user most important
There is so and this time.
Understand how as critical thing beginning, try to omit she completely.
My constructions for carrying half- rotary engine directly try to joint impeller of helicopter, with out any transmission. In order to get low turns properly, I must use engine about outsized jumping capacity, and low rpm. My half -rotate engine, is accuracy, and size are reasonable.
Second ,safety important , are diesel fuel in this low rpm engine. Summary I increase safety twice.
It try to make similar to main parameters " " Chinook”.


Principle of operation half-rotate engine


Air cooling " piston"


And neither one cogged circle

For it, that their is passion force and speed engine ,contained about such dimension behind back of drivers well , so, it is possible to use for for race. For example, call such race FORMULA 0,5 Grand Prix :rolleyes:

I find same gear box at propeller C-130 Hercules airplane.
With torque sensor.
My work:



And again neither one cogged circle :D

Regards Andrew

[Feliks]

On one of aerial forum, describing my horse power meter, it re-wrapped in discussion for transmit force for transmission in helicopters theme limitation , very often.
I read this forum and , I has been orientated , that transmission is critical element in helicopter most
Sometimes. at creation of new invention, inspiration takes place at I safety of user most important
There is so and this time.
Understand how as critical thing beginning, try to omit she completely.
My constructions for carrying half- rotary engine directly try to joint impeller of helicopter, with out any transmission. In order to get low turns properly, I must use engine about outsized jumping capacity, and low rpm. My half -rotate engine, is accuracy, and size are reasonable.
Second ,safety important , are diesel fuel in this low rpm engine. Summary I increase safety twice.
It try to make similar to main parameters " " Chinook”.


Principle of operation half-rotate engine


Air cooling " piston"


And neither one cogged circle

For it, that their is passion force and speed engine ,contained about such dimension behind back of drivers well , so, it is possible to use for for race. For example, call such race FORMULA 0,5 Grand Prix

I find same gear box at propeller C-130 Hercules airplane.
With torque sensor.
My work:



And again neither one cogged circle :D

Regards Andrew

[Feliks]

With "cylinder" and popped...





Mutations "Long Cylinder" and 8 valve in one "cylinder"



Vwork ~~= 0,5 V , V=Scircle x long

Andrew