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Moral values and ethics don´t play a role when driving on a track. Getting too excited and making mistakes does, and computers never get too excited so they will never make mistakes like Verstappen in Monaco or Maldonado, so I disagree a computer will not be able to match the safe driving capability of a human, it´s humans who will never be able to match the safe driving of a computer, at least when they´re developed further, and that´s exactly the purpose of RoboRace, developing autonomous drivingautogyro wrote:It is not computer control that the builders of these robo cars should be studying but the workings of the human brain.
Human brains not only react to sensory inputs, they also have the capacity to physically change the way they work based on DNA created and experience modified functions that a computer in its present form can never match.
These brain functions input such things as moral values and ethics from conscious thought.
Computers work barely in comparison to the brains sub conscious capability, an automatic response.
Undertaking functions by reaction to sensors and from stored data not making rapid considered decisions. This is why at the present state of computer knowledge, autonomous road vehicle will not be able to match the safe driving capability of a human driver.
Agree, but computers have a much better spatial awareness since they can analyse data from 360º sensors constantly, unlike humans, who cannot look at the front and sides simultaneously.autogyro wrote: They may be able to assist the driver and autonomous aircraft ships and submarines will be able to operate reasonably well because of the large open areas they use.
Spatial awareness is a crucial issue here.
But it might have a proper link to production cars, since autonomous driving is being introduced on production cars progresively. We have today cars that can brake by theirselves (if the car in front did brake and the driver didn´t realice), turn by theyselves (keep the lane), park without driver input, etc. Even a full autopilot is available today (tesla), so in a near future, probably RoboRace will be more relevant to production cars than F1autogyro wrote:It is a stand alone formula with no proper link into the top level of motor sport development and has little chance of generating interest for the true motor sport fan.
The same human brain responsible for 90% of all road accidents?autogyro wrote:It is not computer control that the builders of these robo cars should be studying but the workings of the human brain.
cool stuff man. but what does that have to do with robo cars exactly?It is not computer control that the builders of these robo cars should be studying but the workings of the human brain.
Human brains not only react to sensory inputs, they also have the capacity to physically change the way they work based on DNA created and experience modified functions that a computer in its present form can never match.
These brain functions input such things as moral values and ethics from conscious thought.
actually, autonomous vehichles are already more perfect than human drivers. in order for these more perfect autonomous vehicles to drive on the roads with crazy apes, they need to be programmed to drive illegally and to make dangerous maneuvers. This is an interesting area of legislation because companies like google need to program electronic drivers to break laws. again, they only have to do this as a reaction to how bad humans are at spatial awareness and terrible driving skills.Computers work barely in comparison to the brains sub conscious capability, an automatic response.
Undertaking functions by reaction to sensors and from stored data not making rapid considered decisions.
This is why at the present state of computer knowledge, autonomous road vehicle will not be able to match the safe driving capability of a human driver.
yes you're right, humans only have 2 visual and 2 acoustic sensors - we are pretty terrible at handling things like aircraft, subs, and especially race cars.They may be able to assist the driver and autonomous aircraft ships and submarines will be able to operate reasonably well because of the large open areas they use.
Spatial awareness is a crucial issue here.
interesting opinion, thanks.Autonomous racing cars have a higher chance of partial success because of the defined and very limited operating envelope but even so I do not see ROBORace as anything other than a promotional gimmick at this time to help arrest the decline in interest for FE.
you should work in F1 you seem to know things F1/FE dont.As I have previously quoted on the FE thread.
FE was not taken up in the way I suggested in 2010 and it was inevitable that it would decline after a short run in its present form.
what do you have against new types of fans being interested in something?It is a stand alone formula with no proper link into the top level of motor sport development and has little chance of generating interest for the true motor sport fan.
Nobody is saying a computer is better at being a human. You need to realize that.autogyro wrote:Interesting responses.
It seems most of you believe in the unproven and not yet developed capabilities of computer technology that as yet does not exist, rather than accepting that human ability has had sole and successful dominance over road car safety and racing car activity for 200 years.
Some might call this opinion arrogant in the extreme.
So computers are better than the human brain, I hope I do not have to rely on any of you for my safety?
Does not exist huh?autogyro wrote:Interesting responses.
It seems most of you believe in the unproven and not yet developed capabilities of computer technology that as yet does not exist, rather than accepting that human ability has had sole and successful dominance over road car safety and racing car activity for 200 years.
Some might call this opinion arrogant in the extreme.
So computers are better than the human brain, I hope I do not have to rely on any of you for my safety?
Yes old indeed, I posted that video and accompanying article over 1 yr. and a half agoSR71 wrote:Does not exist huh?autogyro wrote:Interesting responses.
It seems most of you believe in the unproven and not yet developed capabilities of computer technology that as yet does not exist, rather than accepting that human ability has had sole and successful dominance over road car safety and racing car activity for 200 years.
Some might call this opinion arrogant in the extreme.
So computers are better than the human brain, I hope I do not have to rely on any of you for my safety?
This is an old video btw...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ol3g7i64RAI&sns=em
You should read your comment and change driving to controlling a car. driving is much more than pure physics.SR71 wrote:Nobody is saying a computer is better at being a human. You need to realize that.autogyro wrote:Interesting responses.
It seems most of you believe in the unproven and not yet developed capabilities of computer technology that as yet does not exist, rather than accepting that human ability has had sole and successful dominance over road car safety and racing car activity for 200 years.
Some might call this opinion arrogant in the extreme.
So computers are better than the human brain, I hope I do not have to rely on any of you for my safety?
What we are saying is that computers can and in most cases are better at humans in specific and highly focused task.
Specifically driving, which can be boiled down to math, there is no art at the extreme end its pure physics.
What you are really saying is that you have no clue about present technologies that exist and what's on the horizon. You clearly have no understanding about machine learning which is a strong component of this challenge. This wouldn't be a bad thing, except you're telling us these things are years in the future when in reality they are years behind us.
What's wrong with a competition designed to provoke and inspire computer programmers and scientist to evolve autonomous driving and racing?
If you're such a fan of the Human mind why don't you have a little respect for the fact that some of the greatest human minds find this challenge quite fascinating and are dedicating thier time and money to the challenge?
autogyro wrote:I did not see that Audi racing anything, there were no other autonomous cars near it.
Can you show me a video of it doing the lap in the wet at racing speed with five other cars autonomous or human driven and a comparison on lap times to a human driven car.
Racing is not just a software program to control the car on a simple fixed circuit at speeds under the handling limits.
Try again.
Tell me what is processing power?flynfrog wrote:Are you trying to say that we cant build a computer with more processing power than a fly? Your average cell phone has much more processing power than a fly brain.
We don't need to reach human levels of processing power to drive a car. The inputs are rather small compared to everything a human is processing. Sensor technology is far and away greater than what a human can do. I'm not sure where you think the issue is here. Or do we just need to get our shoes to throw into the machine.