2016 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi, Apr. 29 - May 01

[Gaz.]

Everyone roots for their heroes. That's not the problem. But keep mentioning how good their heroes are, even when they are not, and not appreciating others when they do good is a whole lot different. And Sky, being the official broadcaster of Formula 1, and set to become exclusive in near future, should be a little but more neutral, as they are representing Formula 1, which is a sport that involves drivers of different nationalities, not just British, British and British.

What on earth are you on about? There is no official broadcaster of F1 on a global level, each country or territory is auctioned off, often to the highest bidder. To suggest one broadcaster of one nation should be neutral is laughably idealistic.

[Vasconia]

Everyone roots for their heroes. That's not the problem. But keep mentioning how good their heroes are, even when they are not, and not appreciating others when they do good is a whole lot different. And Sky, being the official broadcaster of Formula 1, and set to become exclusive in near future, should be a little but more neutral, as they are representing Formula 1, which is a sport that involves drivers of different nationalities, not just British, British and British.

What on earth are you on about? There is no official broadcaster of F1 on a global level, each country or territory is auctioned off, often to the highest bidder. To suggest one broadcaster of one nation should be neutral is laughably idealistic.

At least they should try not to feed conspirancy paranoids.

[Vasconia]

Kviat didn´t ruin Vettel and Ricciardo race, he also ruined Perez (puncture on turn 2 incident), and Sainz (some part of Kviat front wing got into his sidepot wich force him to do his pitstop too early), so he ruined 4 drivers races apart from his in just two turns

Absolutely agree. It was an terrible day and performance by Kviat. He should have a penalty for the next race.

[iotar__]

Kviat didn´t ruin Vettel and Ricciardo race, he also ruined Perez (puncture on turn 2 incident), and Sainz (some part of Kviat front wing got into his sidepot wich force him to do his pitstop too early), so he ruined 4 drivers races apart from his in just two turns

Absolutely agree. It was an terrible day and performance by Kviat. He should have a penalty for the next race.

On the contrary, 10 s stop and go is too much. Alonso got less for worse in Abu Dhabi '15 and it's not even debatable. Fairly common incident blown out of proportions because Ferrari was involved. Don't believe me? See why Kvyat's apologising to Vettel and not to Perez. Ricciardo ruined four drivers' races in Austria '15 and the same in Japan (full list below ) and didn't get a penalty at all, his asking for apologies is laughable. Penalties are a farce as comparison of Verhlien vs Nasr (nothing) and Sainz - Palmer (10s) shows.

Opinions vary and I agree that first contact was bad but not criminal and there were circumstances during the second http://www.thisisf1.com/2016/05/03/kvya ... hisisF1%29:
- Coulthard: “Daniil made a mistake with the first contact,” veteran David Coulthard told Tass news agency, “but for the second one he didn’t expect such a sharp deceleration from Vettel.
- Doorbos: “It is of course very bad that you take the lead Ferrari off, but it seems that Vettel had a problem,” he told Ziggo Sport Totaal. “That corner is basically full throttle but you can see that Vettel is off the gas.”

Driving into back of a car as judged by Charlie Whiting (stewards are usually stooges on a nice holiday , it's called recommendation) compared to Kvyat,

Code: Select all

- Raikkonen into Perez Monza 12/13? - identical, outbraked himself and sent Perez straight, reprimand = ridicilous
- Maldonado - same year, almost the same, don't remember the race, grid or a drive through
- Button - Maldonado China '15 (not a start) - high speed, 5 seconds = ridicilous
- Button - Maldonado Singapore '15 (not a start) - no action
- Ricciardo - Raikkonen Monaco '15 (not a start) - clear gain - overtake, no action, 
- Ricciardo - Rosberg Hungary '15 (not a start) - no action
- Button - Perez Monaco '14 - slightly sideways (more like Bottas-Hamilton Bahrain '16, wait a minute...) - no action of course
- Bott-Gros, Mass- Alon USA '15 - no action
- Ricciardo vs 4-5 drivers in Austria - outbraking himself just like Kvyat, small bump and 4 DNFs - no action,
- Ricciardo vs Massa and some other drivers Japan '15, not back but a "suicidal" attempt, ruined a race for several drivers - no investigation
- Verstappen - Grosjean Monaco '15 - dangerous, worse than Kvyat's on every level - 5 places grid which I believe is less than 10 s SG
- Alonso - Gutierrez Aus '16 - no action
- Raikkonen - Nasr, Maldonado Aus '15, more sideways but close enough and a start, driver into a wall - no investigation
- Verstappen - Bottas Hungary '15 - slashed tyres = gain, no action
- Raikkonen - Alonso '15 (the one where Alonso ended up on top), caused by a driver in front, dangerous - no action
- Verstappen - Sainz - Australia '16 - same as 1st Kvyat's situation but not a traffic start - nothing
- Raikkonen - Magnussen - Monaco '14, driving into front for a change :-) - reprimand = ridiculous

[Raleigh]

Individually the incidents in turn 2 and 3 may have mitigating circumstances, but when a driver is at fault for 2 separate collisions that result in cars being eliminated in the space of 2 corners then a 10 second penalty is very lenient...

[FW17]

Not an error of this magnitude

What did Ralf get for that one?

[Andres125sx]

Kviat didn´t ruin Vettel and Ricciardo race, he also ruined Perez (puncture on turn 2 incident), and Sainz (some part of Kviat front wing got into his sidepot wich force him to do his pitstop too early), so he ruined 4 drivers races apart from his in just two turns

Absolutely agree. It was an terrible day and performance by Kviat. He should have a penalty for the next race.

Sorry but no, you disagree

You should read the whole reply

Kviat didn´t ruin Vettel and Ricciardo race, he also ruined Perez (puncture on turn 2 incident), and Sainz (some part of Kviat front wing got into his sidepot wich force him to do his pitstop too early), so he ruined 4 drivers races apart from his in just two turns

This said, I´m not that harsh with him. First incident in turn 2 is obviously a mistake, but this is racing and incidents in first lap are common. In turn 3 Kviat said he didn´t expect Vettel braking at that point, wich makes sense when you see Vettel´s onboard. Perez was in front of him with a punctured tire in previous turn, so he had to back off. Vettel saw his car moving around some meters in front of him due to the puncture and slowed down, but Kviat was very close behind him and didn´t react soon enough, crashing with him again. Add to that Kviat front wing was damaged (part of his wing was inside Sainz sidepot at this point) so maybe he couldn´t brake enough even if he tried.

Unlucky first lap, but I wouldn´t say he deserve anything else than the penalty he already got

[Phil]

I'm with A-Bap. Yes, no doubt Kvyat caused an avoidable collision and no doubt also deserved punishment during the race. If the 10 seconds is adequate is arguable, but I can't agree with people shouting for his head or his seat because of it. It's absurd. Kvyat was not at fault in China and his performance led to a great result for the team.

As Vettel, I can't blame him for wanting to kill the russian in the heat of it. He too, like Hamilton, had a very troubled start into this years season. Two mechanical issues, one preventing him in racing in Bahrain, then the one here with the 5-grid penalty that led to the DNF caused by Kvyat. He has every right to be pissed. As much as I hate saying it, these things happen sometimes when unfortunate circumstances come together. This was another one of these. It's just rare that it actually involves cars at the front, the ones fighting for the WDC, the drivers we tend to hear out or apply more credibility to when they speak. Most of the time, these collisions happen further back, in the midfield and no one, even in this forums, give a damn. But now, because it's Vettel and Kvyat for the 2nd time in two races, it's a big deal.

I'm not a fan of Kvyat. Far from it. But to replace him with perhaps the biggest hot head on the grid at the moment (Verstappen)... hum, no. I think that would be catastrophic.

[Godius]

It seems like Toro Rosso could have better stayed with the Renault PU. They switched to Ferrari 2015 because of better reliability and more power but so far it is not faster than the Renault 2016 and it is less reliable than the Renault 2016

[carisi2k]

Maybe this is payback for all of Vettels incidents with Mark Webber. Anybody remember Seb hitting Mark out of the race during a safety car at Fuji.

In any case at least he has acknowledged it was his fault and accepted the penalty. Time to move on. Anybody calling Kyvat dangerous is just silly. It was not his intention to knock Seb out of the race and it is obviously being blown out of proportion after what happened in China.

China was clearly the fault of the 2 Ferrari drivers. Russia was clearly the fault of Kyvat.

I will say that the incident didn't cost Daniel Ricciardo a chance at points, although it didn't help. It was Red Bulls stupid, insane decision to put the medium tyre on when he came in for a new nose. A tyre that nobody had used all weekend because it was too hard and too slow. That is what cost Red Bull some points

[WaikeCU]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Dhx_RUQnMc

Not an error of this magnitude

What did Ralf get for that one?

Or worse...

[Kiril Varbanov]

Not sure if it has been posted before, but F1.com has some pretty good onboard footage of the start - http://www.formula1.com/content/fom-web ... -best.html
I notice especially Alonso's start, impeccable instinct of where the opportunity is.

[Manoah2u]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Dhx_RUQnMc

Not an error of this magnitude

What did Ralf get for that one?

seriously?

The Ferrari moved [purposefully] right in front of Ralf's BMW-Sauber and then braked the moment it was in front.
The only 'error' Ralf made here was that he didn't concider he should have moved left as he could have anticipated
such a - bastard - move. He probably knew moving further left would see the Ferrari go left as well, so decided to
stay foot for a bit and then suddenly go left and outbrake the Ferrari. He did not expect to get brake-tested immediately
as that was a cold move.

and this was unavoidable. Kvyat's double rear-ending move was totally avoidable and came from long back.
And Ralf really was the one on the shortest end here. so no comparison at all.

[cooken]

Not sure if it has been posted before, but F1.com has some pretty good onboard footage of the start - http://www.formula1.com/content/fom-web ... -best.html
I notice especially Alonso's start, impeccable instinct of where the opportunity is.

F1.com picking up their game. Great footage of some especially good driving from Alonso and Palmer.

Those clamoring on about Kvyat...the car behind is responsible for avoiding collisions unless there is some malicious intent from the car in front. I don't know how anyone can excuse Kvyat either of the two incidents. He is a racing driver. A big part of that is anticipation and avoidance.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Not sure if it has been posted before, but F1.com has some pretty good onboard footage of the start - http://www.formula1.com/content/fom-web ... -best.html
I notice especially Alonso's start, impeccable instinct of where the opportunity is.

Stunning start for Alonso there !!! Didn't saw that footage until now. Hu.....