2016 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

[voltmod]

Ferrari's gap is more in other things then in pu

I think Ferrari is nowhere near Mercedes, after the upgrades both introduced. Mercedes have found more power with new Petronas oil/ fuel, and it seems that Shell has a lot of work to do to catch up. Also, Ferrari should work more with the refinement of the front wing they introduced and also with their rear wing, that looks underdeveloped compared to Mercedes and Red Bull, or even compared to STR. I am not sure about the floor either... I know Sochi is a special track, but I am really disappointed of the outcome after qualifying...

Sorry about my English guys

According to Kimi new updates works as planed.

Biggest disappointment is Kimis qualify speed. He is just to old and slow. Even Bottas was faster then Kimi and he missed front row. Is is time for Riciardo to join Ferrari.

Everybody is saying that Kimi is old and slow, but this is not exactly right... Not sure about Ricciardo, he is a fast driver, but Bottas? C'mon, he is overestimated... he is a lumberjack, not a driver.

Also...
according to Kimi, Ferrari 'not fast enough' to challenge Mercedes... http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/154 ... -raikkonen

[FW17]

Do you think it is time someone was let go at Ferrari? It has been quiet a miserable beginning to the season other than the 20 laps in Australia.

I somehow don't see them getting further up towards Merc, probably are going to spend rest of the season defending 2nd place in WCC with Red Bull.

Even if the engine has as many horses as the Merc, there chassis has never been top notch for many years (since 2008). They have been really struggling to put a car that is quick out of the box on track, and they are no kings of in season development as RBR have been.

2016 is going to be a struggle and trouble ahead.

[voltmod]

Do you think it is time someone was let go at Ferrari? It has been quiet a miserable beginning to the season other than the 20 laps in Australia.

I somehow don't see them getting further up towards Merc, probably are going to spend rest of the season defending 2nd place in WCC with Red Bull.

Even if the engine has as many horses as the Merc, there chassis has never been top notch for many years (since 2008). They have been really struggling to put a car that is quick out of the box on track, and they are no kings of in season development as RBR have been.

2016 is going to be a struggle and trouble ahead.

There is no team that i know that has developed faster (remember 2014?). Let's not forget that Ferrari is a new team, so i don't think pointing a finger to someone is a solution. I think Ferrari is learning and this period is a learning process for Mattia Binotto (with Mahle, TJI e.t.c) and also is a learning process for Simone Resta (the car is a totally new concept comparing to 2015)... Maybe, Ferrari can win a couple of races this year, but i think sooner than later the team at the factory (James Alison is already working on that i guess) will concentrate and put effort on the 2017 car, if they haven't done that already... So, like you said, we will probably see Ferrari defending 2nd place, and nothing more...

[Vasconia]

Dont be too pessimistic, there have been a lot of problems during the first races but I think that things will improve. New package needs time and the car will show a greater potential. Anyway I dont expect them to beat Mercedes, this is the sad reality.

[santos]

I don't belive that they can win the title, but they didn't have a clean race weekend. They were close to have a great result in Australia, but after that, reliability problems, crashes, have destroyed their races.
But the reliability is most important problem of the team. If Vettel started the race in 2nd, probably wouldn't have won the race, but a 2nd place could be reacheable.

[Mr. Fahrenheit]

Current driver standings:
1. Rosberg 100pts
2. Hamilton 57pts
3. Raikkonen 43pts
4. Vettel 33pts

Hamilton is completely in the championship hunt. If it was Vettel rather than Raikkonen on 43pts and if Ferrari could put together a string of incident-free races devoid of strategic implosion, there'd be much more optimism surrounding this team.

Ferrari are not down and out, nor have they gone backwards; like Hamilton, they've had some poor luck. The season's long and when it averages out, every team will be where they should be.

Something that doesn't surprise me is that the inquisition has started in the Italian media already. Hopefully the team stay the course a little longer without firing everyone. Again.

[ME4ME]

Current driver standings:
1. Rosberg 100pts
2. Hamilton 57pts
3. Raikkonen 43pts
4. Vettel 33pts

Hamilton is completely in the championship hunt. If it was Vettel rather than Raikkonen on 43pts and if Ferrari could put together a string of incident-free races devoid of strategic implosion, there'd be much more optimism surrounding this team.

Ferrari are not down and out, nor have they gone backwards; like Hamilton, they've had some poor luck. The season's long and when it averages out, every team will be where they should be.

Something that doesn't surprise me is that the inquisition has started in the Italian media already. Hopefully the team stay the course a little longer without firing everyone. Again.

I have to disagree, I do think Ferrari are down and out. The only reason Vettel was able to stay within reach of ROS and HAM in the WDC last year was his consistency throughout the year.

Ferrari's increase of pace relative to Mercedes this year doesn't overcome the already broken run of concistency. Also it is yet unclear how unreliabilty is further going to affect Ferrari's season.

I think's both championships are a done deal (Mercedes+a Mercedes driver). Ferrari can merely aim for race wins now, while building a strong base for their 2017 title challenge.

[NL_Fer]

Ferrari is still down on horsepower. But tyre degradation and maybe fuel consumption is very good, look how Raikkonen catch up on Bottas and Hamilton before the pitstop and even overtook Bottas by staying out on old supersofts.

[ferkan]

Ferrari is down on mechanical grip and tire menagment (warming the tires). Biggest deficit Ferrari had in Sochi was in S3. Very low speed corners with no full power straight. RB trails Merc there as well...

[ME4ME]

But tyre degradation and maybe fuel consumption is very good,

I would say those are two of their weak spots! Raikkonen said he had to save fuel all race. Regarding the tyres Mercedes seems to be able to run almost as long as Ferrari can, but at a higher pace, and also turn them on more quickly in qualifying.

[Juzh]

I honestly don't see an area in which ferrari is supposedly better than merc.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

I remember how the partnership with Haas was a loop hole that was supposedly have been exploited by Ferrari to gain advantage over rivals. One of my posts on this very forum, downplayed that possibility because I had question marks over Ferrari's ability to utilize any loop hole to their advantage.

I once again re-affirm that, I strongly suspect the problems in Ferrari are somewhere in the lower to middle level management in their engineering design teams. May be not so much with engineers themselves, although may be to some extent. So, rolling heads at the top management is not going to resolve problems that are at the grass root of their setup. It is not Arrivebene or Allison who have to innovate things for the car that enhances the performance. I think they are still the right people in the current context to lead the team. The people who are responsible for doing that and their immediate management teams is where probably the problems are. What has changed since Aldo was fired, since Stefano was fired, since Luca Marmorini was fired, since Luca Montezemolo was fired. A Big news was made of late about how they wanted to get rid of Alonso and bring Vettel in as HE IS THE NEO that they wanted.

Ferrari was using a faulty wind tunnel and no one had a clue! They kept bringing parts that failed constantly. They realized the correlation issues so late in the cycle. Can you imagine that? Now even after their upgraded wind tunnel, where are the path breaking ideas and concepts? The Haas partnership should been a god send opportunity, only if they had capabilities to utilize it. They kept copying Red Bull when RB was leading and now they are copying Mercedes. This is what they have been doing in the last decade and with that approach, they are only going to be chasing the leaders. This year's car was supposed to be A TOTALLY DIFFERENT/AGGRESSIVE APPROACH as F15T was compromised on some areas. So what is different? Adopting Short nose, that so many Ferrari fans criticized last year and strongly advocated the long nose? A copy of Mercedes front wing? A tighter packaging, JUST BECAUSE EVERYONE SAYS it is good for aerodynamics? As an example, Mercedes went radical with their air intakes this year, obviously there was some compromise with aerodynamics, but they can understand what the best compromise is ON THEIR OWN.

If not for Mercedes helping them, by transferring Wolf Zimmermann (late 2014) to Maranello, I am not sure where they would have been with their PU. Red Bull accuses Mercedes of helping Ferrari in Formula One

Though I have been critical towards Ferrari on most of my posts, but is painful to see them do the same f***** sh** year after year, without the light at the end of tunnel. It is a matter of time that Renault and Honda gets their act together and then Red Bull and McLaren would be knocking them down the order, if nothing changes at the grass root level.

I have this strong belief that, they should have a design office, somewhere in UK. The engineering and design talent pool is all centralized in UK and it is evident with Mercedes, McLaren, Red Bull and many other teams having their headquarters there. It's not a co-incidence that all these teams have made leaps and bound progress over the last decade, having been in UK. Even a Force India, which also has the head quarters in UK, churns better cars with the kind of budget they have.

[ferkan]

Yes, because Mclaren has been setting world on fire in last 5 years...

That loophole was suppose to help them with aero (wind tunnel time), and aero doesnt exactly look bad. I think, as I have said, Merc advantage is in mechanical grip , suspension and in the way tires work. They have RB on the ropes there as well.

Interestingly enough a man who is regarded as suspension guru is their chief designer. He is actually Italian and ex Ferrari, Aldo Costa. Same goes for STR who are set in Italy and arguably have best chassis when looked at relative pace and money spent.

Wolff is actually Lotus ERS guy who worked on their road cars and was most likely hand picked by a guy who worked at Lotus and currently is TD of Ferrari, James Alison.

I mean, of course they will hire guys from other companies, how is that something new or bad in f1? Every other team is doing it, had RB not gotten Adrian Newey no money in the world would have won them 4 titles.

If Merc team is so amazing, as is Mclaren (both set in UK) but how comes neither won a thing when RB had advantage? How come they havent beaten dominant car in stable rules time? Plus thar RB was no where near as dominant as Merc is currently, not one team in history was in fact. To knock off Ferrari for their inability to win over most dominant team of all time, 2 years after they made one of worst cars they ever made is perplexing.

I think you are making scenario in your mind that doesnt exist. No one knows if RB with same engine would be fast as Merc, certainly wouldnt with Ferrari one. Mclaren on the other hand has been nowhere with their chassis for years, they couldnt even beat Ferrari and FI with Merc engine. They have hired PP and went exclusuively with Honda for last 2 years and their biggest achievement is points in Sochi after Vettel, Ric, Kvyat, Hulk and Perez got their races completely messed up.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

The first signs of being mediocre, is to keep living in denial. Rejecting realities and saying everything is great. I guess that your kind of thought process is quite prevalent in Ferrari which is resulting in what Ferrari is today.

Yes, because Mclaren has been setting world on fire in last 5 years...

Looks like you are ignorant of the fact that McLaren started and ended with fastest car in 2012, only go astray in middle and committing blunders that cost them the title and drove their best driver away. They were still second best in 2010, constructors! Short memory I guess.

That loophole was suppose to help them with aero (wind tunnel time), and aero doesnt exactly look bad. I think, as I have said, Merc advantage is in mechanical grip , suspension and in the way tires work. They have RB on the ropes there as well.

Ultimately, that loophole was of no use. That is the bottom line. "Aero doesn't exactly look bad". That is a familiar statement from 2014 too !!! Nothing new about it. Merc has Mechanical advantage, why not Ferrari, whose leaders always tried to pull down aerodynamics and were claiming IT SHOULD BE MORE MECHANICAL? Now it is neither aero nor Mechanical.

Interestingly enough a man who is regarded as suspension guru is their chief designer. He is actually Italian and ex Ferrari, Aldo Costa. Same goes for STR who are set in Italy and arguably have best chassis when looked at relative pace and money spent.

Suspension guru, who didn't do any magic at Ferrari and is successful in UK? And where does James Allison come from?

If Merc team is so amazing, as is Mclaren (both set in UK) but how comes neither won a thing when RB had advantage? How come they havent beaten dominant car in stable rules time? Plus thar RB was no where near as dominant as Merc is currently, not one team in history was in fact. To knock off Ferrari for their inability to win over most dominant team of all time, 2 years after they made one of worst cars they ever made is perplexing.

If this is a question about UK, then you have answered yourself. RB is a UK based team. If you want prove why UK is no special place, then compare it to a team outside of it. It's all UK based teams that have won titles since 2009!!! Doesn't look like any team outside of UK is in a position to win this year or near future.

I think you are making scenario in your mind that doesnt exist.

In real world, its results that matter and results are not in favor of Ferrari. Until that changes, nothing really matters and no amount of fanboyism would help them.

[ferkan]

The first signs of being mediocre, is to keep living in denial. Rejecting realities and saying everything is great. I guess that your kind of thought process is quite prevalent in Ferrari which is resulting in what Ferrari is today.
Looks like you are ignorant of the fact that McLaren started and ended with fastest car in 2012, only go astray in middle and committing blunders that cost them the title and drove their best driver away. They were still second best in 2010, constructors! Short memory I guess.

First of, I'm not saying everything is great. Obviously, Ferrari being most successful team in F1 history and one of top spenders, their aim is to be first. But, others want to be first as well. Mercedes Daimler has put hundreds of millions of dollars behind their project ever since new rules were announced, they are now reaping the rewards of it.
The fact that you are spending most of your time on Ferrari section of forum going on and on about fact that Ferrari hasn't been champion for so long, yet are perfectly happy with Mclaren being 2nd 6 years ago is telling in itself.

Ultimately, that loophole was of no use. That is the bottom line. "Aero doesn't exactly look bad". That is a familiar statement from 2014 too !!! Nothing new about it. Merc has Mechanical advantage, why not Ferrari, whose leaders always tried to pull down aerodynamics and were claiming IT SHOULD BE MORE MECHANICAL? Now it is neither aero nor Mechanical.

We don't know if it was or wasn't of any use. Car looks better on track then any other Ferrari in last 5-6 years, that counts for something. Merc got it right in 2014, and got on with it until now. Making gains year in year out, while everyone scrambled around in panic looking like amateurs. It does look bad on Ferrari, but also on every other team on the grid

Suspension guru, who didn't do any magic at Ferrari and is successful in UK? And where does James Allison come from?

I'm just trying to paint you a picture that you are totally missing. Aldo Costa is chief designer in Merc, didn't make it in Ferrari for obvious reasons (politics, to many chefs in kitchen). In Merc he found a great team with good backing and here they are. While Ferrari had Fry on helm (Brit) who really made a name for himself in his time being there. You have also conveniently left out STR example that makes possibly best chassis for their budget and are based in Italy, which is telling. Country makes little difference in F1 if you are huge team like RB, Merc or Ferrari. Safe to say top engineers will come to Maranello for a good pay with little issues.

Most chief designers and aero leads in Ferrari are actually not Italian, they are from Britain, Netherlands, France etc. F1 is multinational sport, and Ferrari like every other team is multinational one.

If this is a question about UK, then you have answered yourself. RB is a UK based team. If you want prove why UK is no special place, then compare it to a team outside of it. It's all UK based teams that have won titles since 2009!!! Doesn't look like any team outside of UK is in a position to win this year or near future.

No its not, its about the fact that RB (while having top facilities and talent obviously) know that one man (named Adrian Newey) is a guy mostly responsible for their success (and he has been for many other teams in past). Its quite telling that Adrian makes more money then any of their drivers which is not a case in any other team.

In real world, its results that matter and results are not in favor of Ferrari. Until that changes, nothing really matters and no amount of fanboyism would help them.

I think only fanboy in this whole story is you. Ferrari has been mess for last 10 years, that is true. But Ferrari has made huge strides in investing in places they have to make up lost ground (wind tunnel, dynamic engine benches, completely new Gestione Sportiva etc.). They have placed ONE technical director, James Allison, and not 3 as it was case under Domeniceli. They are clearly 2nd best team, and season has just started. They won't be winning championship this year for sure, but lets see how far they are from Merc in next 6-7 races once half of season passes. Their recovery from one of the worst years in Ferrari history to being 3 times winner last year and clear 2nd best team is testament that a team is good. What they need is more time and people to turn it around.

As I said, you have been ignoring points that don't go with your argument, but the truth is when RB was dominant force (never as dominant as Merc) "british" teams like Merc and Mclaren couldn't touch them in stable rule period. Now you are wondering how come reconstructed team of Ferrari cannot beat most dominant force in F1 history, a bit over a year when they finished their worst season ever.

BTW I'm not Brit or Italian so I have no allegiance to either of two nations