2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

[GoranF1]

Wazari
In you first post you said you and your team have worked on one version of new PU and there were other teams as well.
You said you still dont know which solution will Honda take.
It sounds terrible to be honest that it is still is decidion phase.
Things seem to go dead slow in Honda.

[Wazari]

Wazari
In you first post you said you and your team have worked on one version of new PU and there were other teams as well.
You said you still dont know which solution will Honda take.
It sounds terrible to be honest that it is still is decidion phase.
Things seem to go dead slow in Honda.

The leaders make the decision (from both Honda and McLaren). Dead slow? Based on what? Terrible? I don't think so. What would you consider a reasonable pace for changes taking into account the token system and implementation time from concept to design to manufacture to assembly to testing to track for each and every component change

[DiogoBrand]

Technically R&D is always on decision phase.

[diffuser]

Wazari
In you first post you said you and your team have worked on one version of new PU and there were other teams as well.
You said you still dont know which solution will Honda take.
It sounds terrible to be honest that it is still is decidion phase.
Things seem to go dead slow in Honda.

The leaders make the decision (from both Honda and McLaren). Dead slow? Based on what? Terrible? I don't think so. What would you consider a reasonable pace for changes taking into account the token system and implementation time from concept to design to manufacture to assembly to testing to track for each and every component change

That's interesting .....
I would never thought that mcLaren had and input into PU decisions ......

-How long ago did all the recomendations get submitted ?

[Wazari]

Honda has ultimate say but it is IMO a very unorthodox partnership. I have never experienced one like this before.

Recommendations for PU updates? Some before the season started. Some last week. I'm sorry but is that what you're asking?

[restless]

Again, Honda and McLaren (Boullier) have confirmed that the size zero concept is entirely Honda's idea, and that both parties were perfectly happy with that route.
Boullier said (to me, among others) at Barcelona's pre-season test that McLaren did not specify ANY requirements in terms of dimensions to Honda.

The Japanese may have made some design mistakes, but just like everybody else, they are perfectly aware of the advantages that a compact power unit can offer to the entire car.
It should be now be clear to all that Honda are firm believers of their own ideas, and prefer not to copy or rely on anybody else. It was only until they hit the track in 2015 that both parties realised the power unit's problems more much more substantial than just being 'a bit underpowered at the start of their campaign'.

Edit: For completeness, here is Eric's explanation from Feb:
"We have never ever imposed anything on Honda, they do what they want. If they come with an engine like this then we have to accommodate this in our size zero, which would not be a size zero any more. There is absolutely no constraint and if we keep this concept because we are happy with it and we believe in the concept, it will help us catch up quicker faster than any others."

Then can you expain to us whats the meaning of words this same man said 18 months ago in a interview for Autosport?

"Honda actually had to make several attempts and come up with three versions of the power unit because the initial two did not meet the chassis/aero technical specifications. It took them a lot of effort.”

Obviously my english is not good enough to understand what he said back then...

[ncassi22]

Honda has ultimate say but it is IMO a very unorthodox partnership. I have never experienced one like this before.

Recommendations for PU updates? Some before the season started. Some last week. I'm sorry but is that what you're asking?

Am I correct in assuming this also relates to chassis/tub design for 2017 and not just power?

[Nuvolari]

From what I've seen this year, Honda are showing a clear improvement race by race to last year, but are 1 year behind in actual PU development. Honda are constrained by the token situation to make major changes they would like to do in-season to lift the PU competitiveness. In a way they are out of sync with the development cycle. They change some things on the PU during winter, then find that they need even more major changes after they put it on track. But they are locked in to this token situation. Hopefully, 2017 should get them to be on par with the front runners.

Button's fastest lap in Melbourne was matching Vettel's fastest lap in 2015. You can clearly see the pace is there, if you look at the fast laps Alonso put in during the Sochi GP; I'd say better than Williams pace going from those laps.

On the chassis side, McLaren are struggling with the Super Soft tyres more than other teams like Red Bull. Clearly, McLaren have to up their game too, however, I feel the Honda PU is peaky in it's delivery going by the first lap of the Bahrain GP. Drivability needs work too.

[fellowhoodlums]

My summary of all this is.....

McLaren have chassis and battery improvements for Spain. So, a little more performance, better mechanical grip,less drag.

Honda looking to spend tokens and have options depending on a lot of arguments and also on reflection of the Spain enhancements.

Fuel economy seems to be a challenge and some of that might be helped by Spain improvements. Honda might feel they don't have the tokens to make big impact on this in 2016 so might want to start the direction for 2017, testing a concept or two with what tokens they have.

I don't see development taking too long, I think it's all aggressive when you consider how much they have caught up in the time given. Certainly in the middle of the pack ... this year should be about getting to the front of it and challenging RB/W continually.

[GoranF1]

http://www.autosport.com/premium/featur ... 1402656740

anyone has access to this? Scrabs apparently says chassis is very good.

[diffuser]

Honda has ultimate say but it is IMO a very unorthodox partnership. I have never experienced one like this before.

Recommendations for PU updates? Some before the season started. Some last week. I'm sorry but is that what you're asking?

yep.

Yesterday, when I asked this, I was thinking that it was one submission for the whole PU. I guess the scope of the submissions are probably specific to sections of the PU? There are probably even more going around for the restructuring of the PU for next year ? How's all this organized?

[maguetox]

http://www.autosport.com/premium/featur ... 1402656740

anyone has access to this? Scrabs apparently says chassis is very good.

There you have 3 paragraphs of that article:

But even with this return to convention, the MP4-31 package isn't competitive. The reasons for this remain centred around two areas: the aerodynamics and the Honda power unit.

On the chassis side, there's evidence to suggest the car can put in fast lap times when not handicapped by the engine. This has been helped by the frequent chassis updates, as Prodromou brings the level of the aero detail ever closer to that of Mercedes, Red Bull and Ferrari.

The car already has all the right features, with no oddball parts or areas obviously lacking. With this in mind and with the present generation of car design at a mature stage, it's unlikely the next package - described as "significant" by the team - is going to be a radical visual change.

[Thunder]

I agree with that. The Chassis moves strongly in the right Direction. And with them seeming finally finding the Route they want to go with the Chassis it is quite logical we won't see huge differences in Barcelona. Maybe one or two clearly visible new bits, but other than that a Load of fine tuning all around the Car.

[Vasconia]

I support the idea that the chasis is very good and a vast improvement from last year´s one. The good reliability is helpingo to improve it each race which was imposible last season due to the lack of reliabilty.

The "significant" improvement expected for this race should help them to reach the Q3 for both cars and around a top5 for Monaco. Or am I too optimistic?

[maguetox]

I support the idea that the chasis is very good and a vast improvement from last year´s one. The good reliability is helpingo to improve it each race which was imposible last season due to the lack of reliabilty.

The "significant" improvement expected for this race should help them to reach the Q3 for both cars and around a top5 for Monaco. Or am I too optimistic?

I think you are too optimistic. Remember that all the teams are preparing improvements for Barcelona, so expect McLaren to keep the same position as now, between 11 and 14 in general.

I´m expecting the big jump when Honda improve their PU, until them... same old...same old.