2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - Mercedes

[diego.liv]

Is this guy for real?
Mecedes wouldn't have any fans to speak of without Shumacher and Hamilton.

I'm quite sure you recall the reason Mercedes withdrew from motorsport, nevertheless everything from the Daimler, Benz, Jellinek era to 2010 should be erased, and fans/followers of the Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team HAVE to be fans from F1 2010 onwards.
Yeah why not forgetting all the history, road cars, races, innovation the german brand brought to the world, no one can root for them except since the last 6 years.

I personally love a lot of things (stories and engineering stuff too) about i.e. Ferrari and McLaren history, but not liking that much of 90s+ about F1 Ferrari and most recently Mclaren.
Following your opinion, were Porsche to enter F1: hey Ferdinand who cares everything you did, the F1 team that can show with pride your name have to start from zero, especially the fan base

Somewhere on the internet the letter was assumed to be also used as a motivation to the employees back in Brackley and Brixworth.

[FoxHound]

There does seem a very vocal amount of Hamilton fanboys out in force, so here's a reality check to them.

1.Had Hamilton not joined Mercedes in 2013, he would still be a single time world champion.
2.Had he remained at McLaren, he would not have scored a single victory from 2013 to today.
3."Still I rise" would be a metaphor, rather than the "art following life" of a back to back world champion.
4.The spotlight Hamilton craves would not be so forthcoming.
5. In his 3 seasons at Mercedes he has scored 22 victories compared with 21 victories in 6 seasons at McLaren.


Instead, the small minded will focus on 4 races whereby Hamilton has undoubtedly suffered horrendous luck.
But 3 of those four races he scored a podium, and the one he didn't was also due to a collision and damaged floor.
Sometimes it happens, as Rosberg in 2015 losing 50 points in Italy and Russia due to an engine and throttle issue demonstrates.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

There does seem a very vocal amount of Hamilton fanboys out in force, so here's a reality check to them.

Seriously?

1.Had Hamilton not joined Mercedes in 2013, he would still be a single time world champion.

And why exactly was Lauda PRAYING at Singapore in 2012 that, may Hamilton suffer a terminal damage?

2.Had he remained at McLaren, he would not have scored a single victory from 2013 to today.

Someone had a crystal ball that told, a struggling 2012 Mercedes team is going to be a force to reckon with? Lewis took a decision that most drivers wouldn't have and to be honest, 99% of the world thought it was a disaster. So, who should get credit for that?

4.The spotlight Hamilton craves would not be so forthcoming.

What stopped Rosberg from earning that? For a reference, despite being a miserable failure in the past many years, Ferrari enjoys a great deal of popularity. Does success alone bring such popularity? And where does the 4 time champion Vettel (don't mistake, I am fan of Vettel too) stands in popularity charts compared to Hamilton, the 3 time champion?

5. In his 3 seasons at Mercedes he has scored 22 victories compared with 21 victories in 6 seasons at McLaren.

Absolutely incredible group of engineers at Mercedes. Jus to correct you, he would have had 23, if not for the jokers in Mercedes Strategy team. Monaco 2015.

Instead, the small minded will focus on 4 races whereby Hamilton has undoubtedly suffered horrendous luck.
But 3 of those four races he scored a podium, and the one he didn't was also due to a collision and damaged floor.
Sometimes it happens, as Rosberg in 2015 losing 50 points in Italy and Russia due to an engine and throttle issue demonstrates.

Being a Hamilton fan, even if the current sh** storm doesn't hold any water, it is a good wake up call for the Mercedes camp to ensure everyone understands how the world treats them if someone out there has dropped the guard.

[turbof1]

There does seem a very vocal amount of Hamilton fanboys out in force, so here's a reality check to them.

Seriously?

1.Had Hamilton not joined Mercedes in 2013, he would still be a single time world champion.

And why exactly was Lauda PRAYING at Singapore in 2012 that, may Hamilton suffer a terminal damage?

2.Had he remained at McLaren, he would not have scored a single victory from 2013 to today.

Someone had a crystal ball that told, a struggling 2012 Mercedes team is going to be a force to reckon with? Lewis took a decision that most drivers wouldn't have and to be honest, 99% of the world thought it was a disaster. So, who should get credit for that?

4.The spotlight Hamilton craves would not be so forthcoming.

What stopped Rosberg from earning that? For a reference, despite being a miserable failure in the past many years, Ferrari enjoys a great deal of popularity. Does success alone bring such popularity? And where does the 4 time champion Vettel (don't mistake, I am fan of Vettel too) stands in popularity charts compared to Hamilton, the 3 time champion?

5. In his 3 seasons at Mercedes he has scored 22 victories compared with 21 victories in 6 seasons at McLaren.

Absolutely incredible group of engineers at Mercedes. Jus to correct you, he would have had 23, if not for the jokers in Mercedes Strategy team. Monaco 2015.

Instead, the small minded will focus on 4 races whereby Hamilton has undoubtedly suffered horrendous luck.
But 3 of those four races he scored a podium, and the one he didn't was also due to a collision and damaged floor.
Sometimes it happens, as Rosberg in 2015 losing 50 points in Italy and Russia due to an engine and throttle issue demonstrates.

Being a Hamilton fan, even if the current sh** storm doesn't hold any water, it is a good wake up call for the Mercedes camp to ensure everyone understands how the world treats them if someone out there has dropped the guard.

1. I think you missed the point: it's true that Hamilton would still have been a single WDC if not for the Mercedes car. He's a brilliant driver, but you can't win championships only with talent as you first and foremost need a championship competing car at the very least.
2. Still doesn't change the fact it's the car that made him win victories. Again: nothing against the driver as a Senna, Schumacher or any other great driver would neither have won a single race with the mclaren from 2013 on.
5. Ughh, that's opening a car of worms. There are absolutely numerous events I can think off where Hamilton was robbed from a victory during his period with Mclaren, and at Mercedes as well. Let's just keep at the numbers.

IMO, the technical issues are what they are. I can't remember a single moment in F1 where a driver got his car deliberately sabotaged by his team (well, excluding the 2008 moment where Piquet was asked to drive into the wall). It's motorsport: odds are you are going to have a run of bad luck on the mechanical side. Nobody else then the team is more frustrated about this.

[FoxHound]

IMO, the technical issues are what they are. I can't remember a single moment in F1 where a driver got his car deliberately sabotaged by his team (well, excluding the 2008 moment where Piquet was asked to drive into the wall). It's motorsport: odds are you are going to have a run of bad luck on the mechanical side. Nobody else then the team is more frustrated about this.

That's what the Hamilton fans aren't seeing.

They see it as some sort of collusion by Mercedes to get Rosberg to win, in so doing ignoring Rosbergs own misfortune in the previous 2 years.
Mercedes go to extreme lengths to ensure parity, more so than most teams that have been in similar situations in the past, namely Red Bull and Ferrari.

The bottom line here is the fanboys are barking at the very tree that bore Hamilton 2 world championships along with 22 victories.

[turbof1]

It's a bit shortsighted to throw it on fanboyism on f1technical. Nobody here seriously believes Mercedes is deliberately disadvantaging Hamilton to have Rosberg a go on the title. There might be some random twitter messages about conspiracies, which further got blown out of proportion by Mercedes actually reacting on it (something they IMO should never have done).

I really do not know why effort is put into this . I can appreciate the dislike for Hamilton's bad fortune with the car, but that's part of the game. I also feel that dislike should not be confused for fanboyism. Again nobody around here has the 'capacity' to believe Hamilton is being deliberately disadvantaged.

[FoxHound]

It's a bit shortsighted to throw it on fanboyism on f1technical. Nobody here seriously believes Mercedes is deliberately disadvantaging Hamilton to have Rosberg a go on the title. There might be some random twitter messages about conspiracies, which further got blown out of proportion by Mercedes actually reacting on it (something they IMO should never have done).

I really do not know why effort is put into this . I can appreciate the dislike for Hamilton's bad fortune with the car, but that's part of the game. I also feel that dislike should not be confused for fanboyism. Again nobody around here has the 'capacity' to believe Hamilton is being deliberately disadvantaged.

My issue is Wolff going to the lengths of writing an open letter to the fans, which is now openly ridiculed here.
I want to see Hamilton win due to an investment I partook to the tune of a couple hundred £'s. As likely do many others. But as you say, "it's part of the game" and should be accepted as such.

[Phil]

My take on it is that it's just unfortunate circumstance. Unfortunately, when effectively only 2 guys from the same team have a realistic shout at the championship, that unfortunate circumstance becomes crucial for either. Like in 2014 - any DNF can be decisive, as it takes 4 straight wins (assuming the other finishes 2nd) to overcome. Now, if the two were separated by a huge margin, it probably wouldn't make much difference either way; as the better driver would probably pull through regardless how many more technical issues he is dealing with. But in regards to Rosberg and Hamilton, I think both are extremely close, making matters worse that every technical glitch has the potential to carry rather large consequences.

It's still early in the season, but IMO 43 points is already a mighty gap that I don't think existed before (except 2015 towards the end when Hamilton clinched it in USA). 43 points = straight 7 wins to reach parity and at that point we're already past the half way point (and personally, I think it would be a mighty feat for Hamilton to win the next 7; I don't think that's likely at all).

I also think that there's no logical reason why Rosberg is more likely to suffer the next technical glitch; it could just as well hit Hamilton again. We'll see, but the bigger that gap becomes, the more it will impact the mental strength of both drivers. In 2014, Rosberg might have jumped to a big start, but Hamilton reeled him in with 4 straight wins. Then more set-backs for Hamilton, but he always stayed rather close (no bigger gap than 29 points after that if I am not mistaken). I think Rosberg has improved mentally (he's used to losing WDCs in a WDC winning car), so IMO this gap will only make him a fiercer contender.

If I was a betting man, I think I'd put down a bet on him winning the WDC this year. Not sure if the odds are still in Hamiltons favor, but I'm not so sure. And there's also the two reprimands Hamilton has that is worth considering. Another one and he'll face a 10 grid penalty.

[ringo]

There does seem a very vocal amount of Hamilton fanboys out in force, so here's a reality check to them.

1.Had Hamilton not joined Mercedes in 2013, he would still be a single time world champion.
2.Had he remained at McLaren, he would not have scored a single victory from 2013 to today.
3."Still I rise" would be a metaphor, rather than the "art following life" of a back to back world champion.
4.The spotlight Hamilton craves would not be so forthcoming.
5. In his 3 seasons at Mercedes he has scored 22 victories compared with 21 victories in 6 seasons at McLaren.


Instead, the small minded will focus on 4 races whereby Hamilton has undoubtedly suffered horrendous luck.
But 3 of those four races he scored a podium, and the one he didn't was also due to a collision and damaged floor.
Sometimes it happens, as Rosberg in 2015 losing 50 points in Italy and Russia due to an engine and throttle issue demonstrates.

Woulda coulda shoulda.. No point in making assumptions against what has already happened.
What if Hamilton never had a gear box glitch in Brasil 2007?

All the Fans of F1 are saying is that Mercedes, as the fastest team on the grid, need to improve their operations and give the fans some clean and equally footed racing. Especially since they have a double defending champion in their car.
If you think they don't need to pull their socks up, then that would be turning a blind eye would it?

My take on this poor reliability is that it's not chance. It's not deliberate but it's not chance.
There is some element of waning attention given to Hamilton's power unit, be it intentional or accidental. You don't meticulously assemble and test an engine for hundreds of laps and then all of a sudden you repeat the same simple mistake with the ERS for 2 races in a row. There is obviously some lack of attention in the factory or the garage when it comes to assembling or quality control when the same thing fails twice. So mercedes does deserve all the shtick they are getting over the reliability problems.
A cracked water pipe is also another inexcusable failure. Whatever happened to non-destructive testing and pressure testing?
When it comes to such elite engineering operations, these failures aren't just "racing" as we think most times. You have to look on it like a product that has a guarantee of quality once it leaves the factory; regardless if these are prototypes.

[FoxHound]

There is some element of waning attention given to Hamilton's power unit, be it intentional or accidental. You don't meticulously assemble and test an engine for hundreds of laps and then all of a sudden you repeat the same simple mistake with the ERS for 2 races in a row. There is obviously some lack of attention in the factory or the garage when it comes to assembling or quality control when the same thing fails twice. So mercedes does deserve all the shtick they are getting over the reliability problems.
A cracked water pipe is also another inexcusable failure. Whatever happened to non-destructive testing and pressure testing?
When it comes to such elite engineering operations, these failures aren't just "racing" as we think most times. You have to look on it like a product that has a guarantee of quality once it leaves the factory; regardless if these are prototypes.

I agree Mercedes must do better. But why is their specific and vociferous criticism of "reliability" when a specific side of the garage suffers? Rosberg himself had an issue in Sochi with the PU after all.

Not to say that Rosberg would have won last year, but at Belgium he was 28 points behind Hamilton and four races later in Russia it was 73 points. Both suffered issues but it hit Rosberg far harder in terms of pivoting the championship to a forgone conclusion.

Then we look at the direct competition, who themselves have had a less than stellar 2016 in terms of reliability.
Ferrari? Look how that is turning out for Vettel. Yet people understand Ferrari are pushing like crazy, therefore it is understandable.
However, would it not be the case for Mercedes to react to this threat and push back in return? New fuel lines in Russia are testimony that Mercedes themselves are looking to eek out every ounce of performance wherever that may come from.

So yes, it has been an abysmal start for Hamilton. Not by design, but by circumstance and luck. As another poster intimated, if the next bout of reliability issues strike Mercedes again, it is 50% likely to strike Hamilton as it is Rosberg. When tossing the coin sometimes you'll get head(s) 10 times in a row( ). The coin doesn't remember the previous result when flipped again.
Following this, nor does luck have a recollection of results to dish out evenly. Some people get all the luck, others make their own, while others sit and weep at their misfortune.

What has been highlighted to me, is that Hamilton has demonstrated a good deal of restraint and tact throughout this series of unfortunate events. And that can only be a positive right?

[SR71]

There does seem a very vocal amount of Hamilton fanboys out in force, so here's a reality check to them.

1.Had Hamilton not joined Mercedes in 2013, he would still be a single time world champion.
2.Had he remained at McLaren, he would not have scored a single victory from 2013 to today.
3."Still I rise" would be a metaphor, rather than the "art following life" of a back to back world champion.
4.The spotlight Hamilton craves would not be so forthcoming.
5. In his 3 seasons at Mercedes he has scored 22 victories compared with 21 victories in 6 seasons at McLaren.


Instead, the small minded will focus on 4 races whereby Hamilton has undoubtedly suffered horrendous luck.
But 3 of those four races he scored a podium, and the one he didn't was also due to a collision and damaged floor.
Sometimes it happens, as Rosberg in 2015 losing 50 points in Italy and Russia due to an engine and throttle issue demonstrates.

Woulda coulda shoulda.. No point in making assumptions against what has already happened.
What if Hamilton never had a gear box glitch in Brasil 2007?

All the Fans of F1 are saying is that Mercedes, as the fastest team on the grid, need to improve their operations and give the fans some clean and equally footed racing. Especially since they have a double defending champion in their car.
If you think they don't need to pull their socks up, then that would be turning a blind eye would it?

My take on this poor reliability is that it's not chance. It's not deliberate but it's not chance.
There is some element of waning attention given to Hamilton's power unit, be it intentional or accidental. You don't meticulously assemble and test an engine for hundreds of laps and then all of a sudden you repeat the same simple mistake with the ERS for 2 races in a row. There is obviously some lack of attention in the factory or the garage when it comes to assembling or quality control when the same thing fails twice. So mercedes does deserve all the shtick they are getting over the reliability problems.
A cracked water pipe is also another inexcusable failure. Whatever happened to non-destructive testing and pressure testing?
When it comes to such elite engineering operations, these failures aren't just "racing" as we think most times. You have to look on it like a product that has a guarantee of quality once it leaves the factory; regardless if these are prototypes.

There are so many parallels to RB '14 and Mercedes '16 that it's hard to count them.

Did you feel the same, that Red Bull should have worked harder to provide Seb with a reliable car seeing as he was defending quadruple world champion? Or were you fine with his larger percentage of mechanical errors, especially in practices when set up on the new regulations was so crucial?

Hamilton is getting what every champion in history has had to deal with, mechanical failures. Nobody is guaranteed anything in F1.

I will say one thing, arguing over lawyer written press releases is a bit pointless. The conspiracy theorist maybe wrong but believing what comes out of the front office of Mercedes is just as crazy. They will always deliver a message that promotes stability and steadfastness - if the team was falling apart from within the public would be the last to know. They have sponsors to please and major investors to pay back as well as a Mercedes board looking over thier shoulder. Anything that portrays an image of chaos would see wolfes head on a block and open up a can of worms.

Its just childish to believe press releases these days from these teams. The truth is always in between the lines.

[dans79]

I think several of you are missing the crux of the issue. They had the exact same issue 2 races in a row. They where supposedly confident, they had fixed the issue the first time.

Nico had a similar issue during the race, so obviously they are not on top of the problem.

[domh245]

Nico had a similar issue during the race, so obviously they are not on top of the problem.

Nico's issue was MGU-K related, Lewis' were both MGU-H if I remember correctly.

I do wonder if it something to do with Hamilton's choice of engine mapping in qualifying, is there some kind of really aggressive setting that he overuses and can't be warned about with the new radio rules that leads to the premature demise of the components.

[ME4ME]

There does seem a very vocal amount of Hamilton fanboys out in force, so here's a reality check to them.

1.Had Hamilton not joined Mercedes in 2013, he would still be a single time world champion.
2.Had he remained at McLaren, he would not have scored a single victory from 2013 to today.
3."Still I rise" would be a metaphor, rather than the "art following life" of a back to back world champion.
4.The spotlight Hamilton craves would not be so forthcoming.
5. In his 3 seasons at Mercedes he has scored 22 victories compared with 21 victories in 6 seasons at McLaren.


Instead, the small minded will focus on 4 races whereby Hamilton has undoubtedly suffered horrendous luck.
But 3 of those four races he scored a podium, and the one he didn't was also due to a collision and damaged floor.
Sometimes it happens, as Rosberg in 2015 losing 50 points in Italy and Russia due to an engine and throttle issue demonstrates.

You, sir, deserve a cookie. Spot on!

[dans79]

I do wonder if it something to do with Hamilton's choice of engine mapping in qualifying, is there some kind of really aggressive setting that he overuses and can't be warned about with the new radio rules that leads to the premature demise of the components.

I doubt it, as the team would have warned him after the first incident, or even between qualifying sessions, as they can see what mode the engine is in.