2016 Red Bull Racing team - TAG Heuer

[Chuckjr]

I think that you have to look at it with a different perspective. Max has just been placed in the car and has had to learn new steering wheel functions, different handling etc, yet he is able to match and better Daniel. For a 18 yo to be able to do that is something. look at Kvyat, he has ability, yet has not been able to even match Sainz who is slower normally than Max. Kvyat had also the benefit of knowing the team and the car.
It was noticeable that Daniel was not grinning any more and was obviously concerned at the challenge from his new teammate. Give Max a couple of more races, and you will probably see why Marko decided to move him into RBR, and you could even find that Daniel will start feeling the pressure.

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I moved this over to the RB team thread since its unrelated to the Spanish GP where the dialog sourced from...
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I think KVY will be out of TR after the season ends, and likely out of F1 unless his pulls a rabbit out this season, which I doubt will happen. Matz is just being political and staying out of a media barrage handling it in this way. It would be to risky handing a Red Bull over to Max such a young age. There's just to much risk to fail. The pressure, even tho Max would have been told there was none, Max would have put on himself. Any racer would. Handling it this way Max gets in the car, can't put pressure on himself because he is a transfer, and he gets a massive amount of experience with something like 17 races to go. It's a masterpiece move by Matz.

I agree Max is something very special. What is he, 18 for god sakes?! Think of when you were 18. It's good he was not dropped straight into a top tier team and had a spell in a lower echelon. The tempering that offers always seems to be a good thing.

Smartest move of the season was giving him a few races in another car and then plop him into Newey's mind with no pressure to score a ton of points and simply spend the season learning/honing/sharpening. Imo, this was planned from the start of the season. How to get Max I the car sans a political $h*tstorm, sans pressure, and early in the season.

2017 is going to be righteous if the engine guys can finally get on pace with Merc.

Likely the pressure put on KVY earlier was to push him into mistakes. KVY's interviews post demotion point to something he now knows that explains a lot more of the story. That's at least the impression I got from his demeanor and language.

I may well be wrong and may eat my foot, but this all is seeming more and more contrived.

Whatever happens, Max is being given every opportunity to succeed. I look forward to seeing how he matches up with RIC--who is no slouch and a driver which presents a solid measuring stick to the kid and us as fans.

Hats off Red bull. =D>

[ME4ME]

Some interesting data from F1fanatic:

Speed trap:
7 Max Verstappen Red Bull TAG Heuer 335.4 (208.4)
19 Daniel Ricciardo Red Bull TAG Heuer 328.5 (204.1)

Seems like Verstappen went with a low-downforce setup and Ricciardo with a high one. While potentially being a slight disadvantage in qualifying, it might help Verstappen in the race either to overtake or defend on the main straight and also on the straight towards turn10. There aren't many other overtaking points at this track, so it might actually help him.

Last year, both Sainz and Verstappen went with too much downforce and although they were quick in qualifying, they got overtaken too easily in the race and got stuck behind other cars. Max might have learned a thing or two from that experience.

[Andres125sx]

Some Verstappen fan can´t take a reply where someone does not praise Max Calm down little boy, it was just my opinion and it actually is quite acurate. Look at Q1 and Q2 times, he beated Ric because contrary to Ric, he went flat out from Q1, wich is completely unnecessary and that is exactly what I said.

You can disagree, but downvoting because of something wich is an opinion, and even quite accurate, is immature and childish

But remember Max has a long-term contract in his pocket now with a guaranteed Red-Bull drive. He does not need to go out this weekend and beat any particular person. He can get to know the car a little bit over the next two or three races and work up to it as he wants, perhaps even sandbag a bit to throw off Ricciardo.

I agree, he does not need it, but he´s Max Verstappen, not the most patient or strategic driver out there exactly, at least at this point of his career.

If I´d be forced to do a bet, my money would certainly go to "Max will go flat out from lap 1 to last one, whatever it is for him"

RBR drivers comparison will be one of the most interesting parts of Montmelo race for sure

[Andres125sx]

In this formula to put together a WDC you need a powerful engine and not driving skill like that we had in the previous F1 era.

Sadly, I fully agree with this. I´d change powerful engine by a good car overall, but the main point is driver talent is not that relevant today

Seems you both forget from pretty much 1987 every champion has had the best car.

Sorry but I disagree at some extent. IMHO in 2008 McLaren was not the best car. In 2010 and 2012 Alonso almost did it without the best car. In 2005 and 2006 it is very debatable what car was the best as one was faster and the other more reliable, and there are a lot more examples.

It is usually the best car, but it will always depend on the difference between best car and the rest. When things are similar to this season, RBR era, Brawn season, or Ferrari era, yes, the car is 95% of the result, and the remaining 5% is the driver only because there are two drivers driving that car. But there have been many seasons with cars a lot more similar perfomance wise where driver played a bigger role on the final result

Anycase, when I said today I was not refering to this season, but this decade or even more

For this series you suggest you need a powerful engine and over driver skill. Which is quite ridiculous if you ask me.
I cannot believe my eyes when someone writes such meek diatribe.... when from 2010 to 2013, Red Bull won 8 titles using aero when it had no worries investing over 500 million in CFD etc, leaving manufacturers to worry about engines.
Conveniently engines made no difference in this era.

Now that they do, it becomes an issue?

It's absolute hypocrisy to single out engines as the the only thing to win WDC, but forgetting Aero in a similar position of dominance just 3 years previously.

Please read my post properly, I specifically said IMO it´s the whole car, not the PU alone

I´m the first who said more than once I do prefer a PU dominant formula than a aero dominant formula, but I´d also prefer a formula with no dominant aspects where everything counts and any small difference can make the difference from one GP to the next

[Andres125sx]

That was a class act by Ricciardo. There's a lot of evidence to suggest Ricciardo is the real deal, so if Max ends up matching him then that raises his stock and not lowers Ricciardo in my view.

Upvoted because IMHO this is a very important point. Ricciardo continue impressing me, he´s the first driver after Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel who makes me think there´s some other driver who can join this group. I think he´s a perfect mix of aggresivity and intelligence.

So Max loosing only 2-3 tenths on his first Q with RBR compared to Ricciardo, IMHO was impressive

[munudeges]

give it a rest will ya. we all know how butthurt you are from Sainz being crushed by Max.
it's really sad.

What a shame that never happened. How sad.

[Jolle]

Being 18 with two and a bit years of single seater experience, dropped in a car on a track where all other drivers had 100s of laps under their belt in testing, the whole sporting press divided if it is a wise move and why... Then never putting a wheel wrong the whole weekend and, when the opportunity rises, just grabbing it.

There is so much more then just raw speed to be a champion. This boy has got it! Very impressed.

Another thing that makes a good driver a great driver, is being in the right car at the right time. Being at Red Bull just before a new set of rules puts him in a brilliant position for 2017 and the years after. Especially when Red Bull is the only team where the door is closed for "outside" drivers. If you are at Mercedes for instance, if the RedBull is on a dominant streak, you'll just have to sit it out.

So, his dad did: Benneton (Renault), Tyrrell (Mercedes), Steward (RedBull) and last Minardi (Toro Rosso) (with some out of business teams in between). Looks like Max is going the opposite direction

[Sonador]

Incredible victory and awesome to hear the Dutch anthem on the podium.
Must admit that i got a little bit choked up.

The whole race i was screaming/cheering, i think my neihbours must have tought that i lost it ....
Good race by Red bull, curious what they wil do in Monaco, and what the Renault upgrade wil do.

I think it is a shame that the strategy did not work out for Ricciardo, and find it odd/interesting that he suffers a lot from punctures.

[NL_Fer]

Me too. Next to the unbelievable stunt Max pulled off, here were 4 top notch drivers going for a win in equal cars. This make Rosberg look bad. Same car as Lewis and allowed to race, still hardly an exciting race in 2015.

[flynfrog]

I think I got most of the crap deleted out of this thread. A reminder the teams threads are to discuss things retaliative to that F1 team. This does not include how you feel about other drivers not on the team, the current race, how you feel about other members. I still have a little cleaning up to do but lets try to keep on focus. Its not your meaning in life to convince all other members to like your favorite driver.

If this becomes to much of a problem timeouts will be dealt.

[Vasconia]

Man, what a victory!!! the RB were very fast both in qualy and race, tough Ferrari seemed to be the fatest team. Its incredible to see a 18 years old boy defending himself from a world champion for more than 20 laps. Amazing.

I guess they can win in Monaco too. It will be a close battle with Mercedes though they Germans have the magic botton for the qualy.

[Vasconia]

Man, what a victory!!! the RB were very fast both in qualy and race, tough Ferrari seemed to be the fatest team. Its incredible to see a 18 years old boy defending himself from a world champion for more than 20 laps. Amazing.

I guess they can win in Monaco too. It will be a close battle with Mercedes though they Germans have the magic botton for the qualy.

[hollus]

First of all, Max... =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> and the guy is just 18! If he matures from there he could become untouchable one day.

What I came here to say: I mentioned before that the swap for Kvyat, just after the russian GP, could easily have been planned from much before. Waiting 4 races sounds almost a bit weird, if it were only for commercial reasons, but Russia is a huge market. But thinking about it now, and thinking of markets...
On may 5th it was announced that a Dutch driver substitutes Kvyat.
On may 11th it leaked that Heineken probably has signed a deal to become title sponsor of F1.
Heineken is a dutch company and such a big deal must have been almost done for a looong time before that. Is it 100% by chance that a Dutch driver is promoted to a top team just as the deal with a Dutch company goes solid?
I know that Holland is a relatively minor market for Heineken, but when the timing of such things aligns so freaking perfectly... my brain says no way, but then my brain also says "no way this is by chance".
In any case, Max wining races is just the cherry on the cake. Heineken to make cherry beer Max special edition, you heard it here first.

[ME4ME]

Autosport:

Acknowledging the 18-year-old Dutchman's feat, as well as Red Bull's policy with its drivers, Abiteboul told Autosport: "It is absolutely amazing.

"We are not really surprised because we worked with him when he was at Toro Rosso last year, and I've always been extremely impressed.

"But more than that we're impressed by the strategy of Red Bull overall, their capacity to go extreme, go for a target, the best, whatever it takes, whatever people will think.

"After all the criticism they are giving a big lesson to Formula 1, so we are going to use that also for our own benefit."

Seems all is pretty good and well beteen Renault and Red Bull again.

[turbof1]

Autosport:

Acknowledging the 18-year-old Dutchman's feat, as well as Red Bull's policy with its drivers, Abiteboul told Autosport: "It is absolutely amazing.

"We are not really surprised because we worked with him when he was at Toro Rosso last year, and I've always been extremely impressed.

"But more than that we're impressed by the strategy of Red Bull overall, their capacity to go extreme, go for a target, the best, whatever it takes, whatever people will think.

"After all the criticism they are giving a big lesson to Formula 1, so we are going to use that also for our own benefit."

Seems all is pretty good and well beteen Renault and Red Bull again.

Success can ment even the biggest wounds in relationships.