2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

[R_GoWin]

Not quite, RANS(Reynold's Averaged Navier Stokes simulations) based equations still form the backbone of LES(Large Eddy Simulations), the main difference is in RANS your averages are global, whereas in LES the Reyonolds averages are per mesh. You can have just as much accuracy using RANS as LES but LES requires far less processing power for equal or greater resolution. In either case your sub-models are still the primary factor to getting results that correlate with experimental values.

Mate - I find it hard to read your post and let it go. Its vague at best and incorrect at other times. For an engine developer - LES and RANS are different tools for different jobs. It comes down to the motivation for the work and why one would want to deploy them.

If you are having similar accuracy with LES as RANS - you have either screwed up the simulation with too much filtering and have end up high turbulent viscosity. Or you are applying LES to a problem which does not warrant a higher order method.

In most RANS cases, the averaging is performed over time. By using only one time scale - its only good to compute effects of mean flow. In most LES cases, you use a spatial filtering and directly solve the higher scales of turbulence and model only the smaller eddies. The solution is time dependent. So for engine development - LES is used to understand unsteady, time dependent phenomena - such as cycle to cycle variability, combustion instabilities etc - which RANS does not have the means of resolving.

And LES is more expensive whichever way you look at it - cost/time/knowledge, processing power, expertise of the user, higher order numerics, more detailed boundary conditions etc.

The point of all this is that since 2012 CFD in combustion has taken a big leap, and that leap has allowed the advances we're seeing today.

What happened in 2012 to say that its been a game changer? The codes have been improving year on year with research.

A lot of engine development CFD starts in designing your mesh models which can take years, if you have a good model before everyone else you can literally be years ahead of the competition.

The meshing does not take years. In fact with modern codes, you do not even mesh the models, as they are done automatically.

It does partly explain why a certain manufacturer got it right before everyone else, and all the other manufacturers have been playing catch up ever since.

That's a poor correlation for the evidence you've presented.

[godlameroso]

2012 was around the time that decent sub models were finally introduced from concept, we still have a long way to go, particularly in modeling spray patterns and how turbulence affects them.

[qutote]The meshing does not take years. In fact with modern codes, you do not even mesh the models, as they are done automatically.[/quote]

This was absolutely NOT true until GAMBIT was introduced(2007). Even then you're going to spend a fair bit of time simply getting your node and cell indexing done, not to mention your boundary conditions.

There's still a fair bit of custom meshes that need to be built from scratch because of software limitations. Particularly in regards to valve angles.

Think of it this way, you can have a great idea now, but it's going to take a little bit of time for you to go from concept to product. In this sense it's much like battery tech. Here we are in 2016 but our battery technology is from 2011-2012. It's not that they've stopped developing battery tech, quite the contrary we're on the verge of some very exciting developments, but we won't see them for a few years.

Research is iterative, so you have to wait for people to do the research, and to develop techniques before you can start improving them. This takes time.

[djos]

If i'm understanding the TJI system correctly, There is only 1 injector and it's in the TJI unit, there are definitely 2 spark plugs (is that legal?). or is there a port injector im not seeing?



http://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/05/tur ... ncy-gains/

[gruntguru]

"Main chamber PFI" = Port Fuel Injection. Of course it could use DI for the main chamber instead.

PFI is cheaper (and more homogeneous) while the TJI system provides most of the benefits of DI.

There is only one spark plug.

[FW17]

To make TJI workable in F1 with one injector the most probable case would be the bottom perforated panel of the TJI be part of the piston and not part of the injector itself.

From the HLSI paper the difficulties of creating a homogeneous lean mixtures is one of the main challenges. This certainly will not be achieved by the Mahle Injector setup as it was designed with 2 Injectors

If the injector is open into chamber when main injection happens when piston is in BDC and then closed by a perforated timble attached to the piston, it could be the best way of achieving homogeneous lean mixtures and a jet ignition

[djos]

"Main chamber PFI" = Port Fuel Injection. Of course it could use DI for the main chamber instead.

PFI is cheaper (and more homogeneous) while the TJI system provides most of the benefits of DI.

There is only one spark plug.

Ah ok, I see that now, cheers.

[R_Redding]

5.11.1 ~ The use of Plasma , Laser , or other high frequency ignition techniques is forbidden.

From the Mahle text...

"this results in the formation of plasma jets that reach the piston primarily at the outer edge and ignite the remainder of the mixture."

So.. If the Mahle system is igniting the main charge with plasma jets .... Is it Legal ?.

[FW17]

5.11.1 ~ The use of Plasma , Laser , or other high frequency ignition techniques is forbidden.

From the Mahle text...

"this results in the formation of plasma jets that reach the piston primarily at the outer edge and ignite the remainder of the mixture."

So.. If the Mahle system is igniting the main charge with plasma jets .... Is it Legal ?.

How does air fuel ignition produce plasma?

[R_Redding]

5.11.1 ~ The use of Plasma , Laser , or other high frequency ignition techniques is forbidden.

From the Mahle text...

"this results in the formation of plasma jets that reach the piston primarily at the outer edge and ignite the remainder of the mixture."

So.. If the Mahle system is igniting the main charge with plasma jets .... Is it Legal ?.

How does air fuel ignition produce plasma?

Heat?.

Wiki "A plasma can be created by heating a gas or subjecting it to a strong electromagnetic field, applied with a laser or microwave generator. This decreases or increases the number of electrons, creating positive or negative charged particles called ions,[2] and is accompanied by the dissociation of molecular bonds, if present."

[FW17]

and is accompanied by the dissociation of molecular bonds"

is that happening?

Combustion in chamber and pre-chamber is just thermal oxidization

[djos]

5.11.1 ~ The use of Plasma , Laser , or other high frequency ignition techniques is forbidden.

From the Mahle text...

"this results in the formation of plasma jets that reach the piston primarily at the outer edge and ignite the remainder of the mixture."

So.. If the Mahle system is igniting the main charge with plasma jets .... Is it Legal ?.

How does air fuel ignition produce plasma?

I'd be surprised if they are generating plasma or even plasma like temps which Iirc measure in the tens of thousands of degrees range.

It's most likely marketing b.s. Imo.

[godlameroso]

When they say plasma, they mean boosting a conventional spark plug with a capacitor. It's an old hot rodder trick.

[R_Redding]

When they say plasma, they mean boosting a conventional spark plug with a capacitor. It's an old hot rodder trick.

..?..

This is the Mahle quote in full............
""this results in the formation of plasma jets that reach the piston primarily at the outer edge and ignite the remainder of the mixture. While ignition normally takes place in the centre of the cylinder, with Mahle Jet Ignition it essentially takes place from the outside toward the inside. This allows significantly better combustion of the fuel mixture. The result: more power with considerably less residue.""

They are referring to hot plasma jets,formed by passing through the annular holes in the bottom of the pre chamber, squirting into the main volume and igniting that charge.

[FW17]

When they say plasma, they mean boosting a conventional spark plug with a capacitor. It's an old hot rodder trick.

..?..

This is the Mahle quote in full............
""this results in the formation of plasma jets that reach the piston primarily at the outer edge and ignite the remainder of the mixture. While ignition normally takes place in the centre of the cylinder, with Mahle Jet Ignition it essentially takes place from the outside toward the inside. This allows significantly better combustion of the fuel mixture. The result: more power with considerably less residue.""

They are referring to hot plasma jets,formed by passing through the annular holes in the bottom of the pre chamber, squirting into the main volume and igniting that charge.

Read that but still doubtful that the flame temperature is sufficient for a plasma state

[FW17]

Somebody has done some experimentation work with this setup