Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

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Sevach
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Re: Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

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Ah FIA.

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Andres125sx
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Re: Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

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mistrx wrote:well my Formula E friend, they are pussies.
Those pussies do things that would wet your pants. A little bit of respect to them would be great
mistrx wrote:Finally I can see
I´m glad you finally got it

mistrx
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Re: Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

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Andres125sx wrote:
mistrx wrote:well my Formula E friend, they are pussies.
Those pussies do things that would wet your pants. A little bit of respect to them would be great
mistrx wrote:Finally I can see
I´m glad you finally got it
I do not claim I am braver then our F1 guys, did I say that my Formula E friend? I do say that these guys are really far from real racers. Let's call it pussies for those that like shortcuts. Go see the documentary - see the real racers - and then come back and argue. I am still waiting for the argument :) It looked like you went on to right start, but then it got bit stuck :)

Fingers crossed, I trust you can make it! :wink:

Gaz.
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Re: Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

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gandharva wrote:
OneAlex wrote:I really thought Red Bull's alternative was gaining momentum and that maybe F1 would choose the better option for once. Not only does it look better, RB's aeroscreen would also protect against multiple scenarios and debris and so be far more useful.
The RBR solution (reworked) will come in 2018. Other teams are pissing their pants because they think RBR will gain too much aero advantage due to the fact they designed the canopy. Because of this paranoia we are forced to look at that super ugly halo crap for a whole season... #-o
Why couldn't they just defer closed cockpits for a year so to spare the fans from looking at the Flipflop?
Forza Jules

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adrianjordan
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Re: Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

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Can we use the Australian term and call it "The Thong" ;-)
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proteus
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Re: Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

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What we will get will be probably not even remotely eye pleasing gadget stuck on the car. Onboards (TV pod) will be useless and unwatchable, which is a shame, because i really enjoyed them...I bet Codemasters will stop making F1 games as well.
If i would get the money to start my own F1 team, i would revive Arrows

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djos
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Re: Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

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adrianjordan wrote:Can we use the Australian term and call it "The Thong" ;-)
That's what our yank friends call a g-string :lol:
"In downforce we trust"

Just_a_fan
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Re: Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

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gandharva wrote:
OneAlex wrote:I really thought Red Bull's alternative was gaining momentum and that maybe F1 would choose the better option for once. Not only does it look better, RB's aeroscreen would also protect against multiple scenarios and debris and so be far more useful.
The RBR solution (reworked) will come in 2018. Other teams are pissing their pants because they think RBR will gain too much aero advantage due to the fact they designed the canopy. Because of this paranoia we are forced to look at that super ugly halo crap for a whole season... #-o
The RBR design messes with the airflow to the roll hoop intakes. RBR don't make the same use of this area as Mercedes and Ferrari. So the obvious solution is to keep the majority of the grid happy and go with the other system. Had they gone with RBR's canopy, most of the grid would have had to redesign their entire engine air intake and cooling strategies.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

Jolle
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Re: Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

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mistrx wrote:
Andres125sx wrote:
mistrx wrote:well my Formula E friend, they are pussies.
Those pussies do things that would wet your pants. A little bit of respect to them would be great
mistrx wrote:Finally I can see
I´m glad you finally got it
I do not claim I am braver then our F1 guys, did I say that my Formula E friend? I do say that these guys are really far from real racers. Let's call it pussies for those that like shortcuts. Go see the documentary - see the real racers - and then come back and argue. I am still waiting for the argument :) It looked like you went on to right start, but then it got bit stuck :)

Fingers crossed, I trust you can make it! :wink:
Did you see the crash on the last lap of the first Formula E race? Prost vs Heidfelt? My heart stopped for a moment...

On your returning argument of British and Irish road racing (I guess that's the point you're trying to make with the TT documentary). Watch it again and ask yourself why it's done by semi professionals at best, why, apart from a few bikers nobody cares... (I do follow the Irish road racing championship by the way). By the way, road racing is on the edge between racing and driving fast, just because it's too dangerous to fully commit.

If you really want balls back, let's ditch helmets and go back to leather caps. Away with seat belts or, back to the Mercedes 1908GP car, 12l engine, hand wide tires. Etc etc.

It's progress. Live with it.

JesperA
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Re: Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

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I personally prefer open cockpits in F1, but that IS gonna change, like many, i don't like the halo from an aesthetics point of view, so for me, a fully closed cockpit can look good and so far "Iacoski" have, in my eyes, made the best looking closed cockpit F1 design so far:

Image

Image

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djos
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Re: Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

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Thinking about the halo, I personally think that it could be more dangerous than nothing at all in a small debris situation.

E.g. A small piece of debris hitting the underside of the halo could in fact be deflected and accelerated down into the drivers chest area.

Thoughts?
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Fulcrum
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Re: Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

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I think the Halo device is a massive mistake.

As has already been pointed out by several posters, Halo won't provide universal protection from flying debris interacting with the driver. Its primary benefit may only exist in preventing errant tyres from striking drivers.

There are more effective mechanisms of dealing with tyres. Why funding hasn't been allocated for developing tyre tether technology further remains a mystery to me. Apart from that, surely there is a way in which tyres could be designed to rapidly deflate in the event of an accident. In essence, a form of automated puncture. A tyre with no pressure won't bounce around as much, and will likely cause less instances like those that occurred with Surtees and others.

Another avenue that should be explored is making tyres lighter. This would have the dual benefit of making existing tethers more effective and, in the event of a detachment, less energy in the tyre.

I gather next year's tyres (wider, heavier, etc....) are not being introduced in the name of safety. How can the FIA be so extremely dogmatic about Halo/Canopy/Other on the one hand, and on the other draft rules that make the sport inherently less safe?

Anyway, Halo, to me, is a compromised solution. While it may help in specific situations, there are many others where the benefits are not as well founded. There are others still where it may be a liability to the driver.

Lastly, I think the FIA is underestimating the amount of revenue and public fascination generated by the visceral appeal of an F1 car. We've already experienced the loss of the brutality of the sound. These cars immediately have less impact on you as a result. They are less hyper.

Halo is an objectively ugly solution. Some may like it, but most polls I've seen are heavily opposed to the aesthetics. An 'ugly' F1 car isn't good for the sport.

While safety should precede style, style shouldn't be absolutely compromised chasing 1 in 1000 events that may or may not be prevented by the proposed solution.

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void
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Re: Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

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I only can imagine the reason is the halo is more $afe, claro sticker on halo had show it.

erlik
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Re: RE: Re: Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

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Fulcrum wrote:I think the Halo device is a massive mistake.

As has already been pointed out by several posters, Halo won't provide universal protection from flying debris interacting with the driver. Its primary benefit may only exist in preventing errant tyres from striking drivers.
I think it should additionaly prevent hurting driver by other car (one car climb another like Gro/Alo. ..), hitting the wall, turning upside down...

I also don't like aesthetic of it and I am afraid of negative impact on safety.... however it is the way how it will be and I will not quit watching F1 as I didn't when phallus nose were in fashion :)

mistrx
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Re: Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

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Did you see the crash on the last lap of the first Formula E race? Prost vs Heidfelt? My heart stopped for a moment...

On your returning argument of British and Irish road racing (I guess that's the point you're trying to make with the TT documentary). Watch it again and ask yourself why it's done by semi professionals at best, why, apart from a few bikers nobody cares... (I do follow the Irish road racing championship by the way). By the way, road racing is on the edge between racing and driving fast, just because it's too dangerous to fully commit.

If you really want balls back, let's ditch helmets and go back to leather caps. Away with seat belts or, back to the Mercedes 1908GP car, 12l engine, hand wide tires. Etc etc.

It's progress. Live with it.
.."Watch it again and ask yourself why it's done by semi professionals at best, why, apart from a few bikers nobody cares... " Maybe because those "professionals" are afraid, what do you think? And also how can you say "nobody cares"? Wow, apparently you've done some comprehensive research. Oh, wait. :)

"If you really want balls back, let's ditch helmets and go back to leather caps. Away with seat belts or, back to the Mercedes 1908GP car, 12l engine, hand wide tires. Etc etc. " This one made me laugh and I guess you know why. This is just laughable try for an argument. Furthermore, I did not ask to decrease the safety standards, did I my friend? And yes, I would appreciate wide tyres and 1200+ engines, you have problem with that? What you just showed can be called pure demagogy.

But you still didn't disprove my argument which stays - these modern F1 drivers are far from real racers - you see the real ones in road racing as you pointed out (and other disciplines such as free climbing). If you get the sense of Olympics, sportsmanship, being sportsman (racer in this case) is about fair play, exceeding your limits and reaching always for better results. For me the TT racers are as good - no - better! sportsman than modern F1 crybabies getting paid millions with their crash tested carbon fibre safety cockpits, physios, simulators and PR bosses.

Your so called "argument" that they are pretty much some bunch of lunatics with no skills that no one cares about doesn't hold IMHO. I would accept that they are "amateurs" only if those Moto GP guys went to race Isle of man TT and scored better lap times. As it stays, those guys that posted the best lap times at Isle of man TT are the best given the circumstances (= driving extremely long race with 200+ corners, brick walls, hedges, lamp posts) etc. Period. But wait, Moto GP guys won't race Isle of man TT, will they? If they do and we see their lap times, please let me know and we can discuss again.

Getting back to this "joke of racing" and so called F1 "racers" being actually pussies" - for example this race in Monaco was bloody started after safety car! What a joke. There was almost no puddles of water. They are supposed to be the best world drivers. Whose one of the skills is to judge how fast you can go at any given metre of the track given its state. Do you remember Senna in wet in Monaco? I guess he must be rolling in his grave after seeing this "RACE start". Would be funny if it wasn't sad. Imagine asking: "Dear Mr. Senna aren't you afraid to start Monaco GP in rain without safety car?" :shock: And all those rules that you can't defend, move more here and there, being penalized for overtaking, blue flags, DRS, what a joke.

The main argument then: if you saw that documentary there are two-three places when they go on to say the main thing: "no one forces us with a gun to go race". I bet you that if you asked a motorsport driver simple question "Would you be willing to drive 1200+ F1 car in a proper wet, without closed cockpit (btw. don't we already have closed cockpit motorsport racing series, anyone??), without run off areas as wide as 100m?" you would filter out the boys from the man (as the paramedic pointed out when talking about who goes flat out in Ballagery). Those who would go for it would be the real racers (= want to go faster, exceed the limits) as were the F1 guys at times when there was a 20% chance of being killed when entering the race and still raced.

It is the same with test pilots and astronauts. By nature it is dangerous field of operation that can't be never 100% safe. And those people know that pretty well, accept the risks and go for it. Saw few interviews with test pilots. 99% will tell you they would fly for free. They know the risk, they love the job and go for it. And the same it is with top motor racing. Either you are up to the job and able to face the danger that you can never remove or go and fricking play chess! And be sure that if you go play the chess there will be 10 guys waiting in the line to drive in your car!

Go and show the "closed cockpit" and starts behind safety car to free climbers or extreme skiers! And they will laugh so hard that they will choke my friend.

If the the current trend in F1 will continue there will be nothing to admire about the F1 drivers. It will be closer and closer to video game. No danger, no need to be kinda "mad" to drive. And since anyone can play video games F1 drivers will be just like any other sportsman - something like sprinters. I do not take away anything from someone training whole life to run 100m one tenth faster than the record, but hey will I call the person "hero", "brave" person? Will I really admire him? No, I will not.

I will still admire astronauts, fighter and test pilots, speed record breakers in any field, extreme skiers, road racers, free climbers and many others I forgot to mention. And still I have to reiterate that I do not want anyone to get killed. I am not some freak that needs blood to enjoy sport. I will admire them because I think what they do needs extreme bravery and skill of which I have maybe 1%.

Sterilizing F1 to the point where the "race" will take place using remotely controlled cars for the sake of safety is the end of the once glorious F1 sport. Heck ,17 year old can drive F1 these days (and I do not take anything from Verstappen).

Let sane people decide if they accept the risk and don't wrap them in excessive "safety coating"! Give them freedom to decide and ultimately bear the consequences! In the end, it is their life on the line. If they are afraid, they chose wrong field of activity. They can go and play chess.

I had an accident on small slow motorbike recently (went faster than I should have) and was lucky not to get killed and get away with practically no injuries. Trust me I won't be trying that next time. That is why I do not race, let alone road race. And that's why I admire all those guys mentioned above and bit despise current crop of F1 "drivers" and "F1 racing" and this crazy notion that everything (including fields of activities with intrinsic danger) has to be safe! No, it never will be, accept it!