Scuderia Ferrari SF16-H

[George-Jung]

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferra ... el-745002/

I actually think the suspension change could be most significant - if it works. Getting tyres to work properly in qualifying is their biggest Achilles heel and you would imagine a change like this would have come as a result of post Barcelona test, which implies they had time to understand the issue, just not time to rush production of new part before Monaco.

Could it be that they will return to push rod suspension on the rear??
Would that even be allowed mid-season?

Wasn't it that when the changed (2011??) the rear push rod for pull rod that they lost traction and never really got back in to the groove?

[wuzak]

Could it be that they will return to push rod suspension on the rear??
Would that even be allowed mid-season?

Wasn't it that when the changed (2011??) the rear push rod for pull rod that they lost traction and never really got back in to the groove?

I doubt that they would change from pull rod to push rod.

Firstly, because it would require a new gearbox casing. Though I believe Ferrari are now using an outer cf casing to go around the gearbox proper, which would make changing this easier.

And secondly, because it would pe problematic mounting the springs/dampers up near the turbo and exhaust.

I think the change will involve mods to the geometry.

[f1316]

Could it be that they will return to push rod suspension on the rear??
Would that even be allowed mid-season?

Wasn't it that when the changed (2011??) the rear push rod for pull rod that they lost traction and never really got back in to the groove?

I doubt that they would change from pull rod to push rod.

Firstly, because it would require a new gearbox casing. Though I believe Ferrari are now using an outer cf casing to go around the gearbox proper, which would make changing this easier.

And secondly, because it would pe problematic mounting the springs/dampers up near the turbo and exhaust.

I think the change will involve mods to the geometry.

I agree that I doubt that they'll do it - but also agree that the change post-2011 to pull-rod on the rear coincided with the end of the Ferrari cars with good mechanical grip.

I think this is more about Aldo Costa leaving though and less about any inherent advantage in push. Could be that Ferrari as an entity (I.e. all the mechanics) just understood the kinematics of it better though.

[Sevach]

2011 Ferrari already had big problems (pushrod front and rear), it struggled on hard tires no matter what.

This season might have something to do with Ferrari running front pull rods for the last 4 years and now that they changed back to push the setups aren't working in the same way.

[bhall II]

I imagine it will be easier to work the tires given a power unit that can (finally) be operated as intended.

[giantfan10]

2011 Ferrari already had big problems (pushrod front and rear), it struggled on hard tires no matter what.

This season might have something to do with Ferrari running front pull rods for the last 4 years and now that they changed back to push the setups aren't working in the same way.

i dont think thats the case... i dont think they forgot all the years of experience they have had with the push rod suspension.
i suspect the tweaking of the rear suspension points me to the conclusion that they had a problem getting heat into the rear tires... what do i know anyway? lol

[Monobloc]

BBS needs to come back into F1. Those OZ wheels look like they were designed and produced in China!

[Sevach]

2011 Ferrari already had big problems (pushrod front and rear), it struggled on hard tires no matter what.

This season might have something to do with Ferrari running front pull rods for the last 4 years and now that they changed back to push the setups aren't working in the same way.

i dont think thats the case... i dont think they forgot all the years of experience they have had with the push rod suspension.
i suspect the tweaking of the rear suspension points me to the conclusion that they had a problem getting heat into the rear tires... what do i know anyway? lol

They only ran Pirelli's with pushrods on 2011 (year in which they also had push at the rear), ever since 2012 they had pull both front and rear so they never ran a push front, pull rear car ever (maybe in the 80's???).
And with how complex suspensions got since mid 2000's i don't think previous experience counts for much...

Truth is Ferrari misses the days where they could solve these kinds of problems together with Bridgestone.

[can]

The fact that everybody within the Ferrari team is happy about this less successful car gives me hope for this weekend and the rest of the season.

- New Turbos
- New rear suspension
- New shell fuel
- Hopefully a new smaller nose

Besides that they are surely gaining more and more knowledge about the tire pressure trick.

Sound like a major Upgrade.
But if that alltogether did not work out, they should cleary focus on 2017.
And than they should pray, that the merc und red bulls have an intense
fight until the end of the year, so that those guys have work until the last race.

[pciarro]

- Hopefully a new smaller nose

Accordingly to the latest news, there won't be a new nose

[ripper]

As far as I have read on various italian sites Ferrari won't bring a new nose in Canada, the nose that passed crash test few days ago could be a MCL one

[can]

Thats sad...

I dont understand why those guys in Maranello dont copy the successful Mercedes Approach
and hire every available top techichian. And why the hell they cant get James Key for instance?

Or some guys from Force India? They seem to be quite smart.

[turbof1]

Thats sad...

I dont understand why those guys in Maranello dont copy the successful Mercedes Approach
and hire every available top techichian. And why the hell they cant get James Key for instance?

Or some guys from Force India? They seem to be quite smart.

Because simply copying does not work. Behind the whole aero setup of Mercedes are literally thousands of terabytes of data, information and genuine understanding. Ferrari could be even given the Mercedes car and still struggle half a season, simply because they don't have experience with it.

It's not even clear if Mercedes their approach is actually better. Mercedes clearly can get their package work better, but it is not a certainty it is actually the best.

Moreover, I think it's important to note a shorter nose will NOT bring huge performance gains. It's always entertaining seeing people getting themselves excited for what really is a very small performance gain. One can look at the current nose, take the rulebook at it and it's from there easy to notice there's not much that Ferrari can shave off the current nose. There are probably a couple of cm's they can get rid off, but the update will be of the magnitude what Williams did at the beginning of the season with their nose. You will have to look very closely to notice the subtle differences.

[Mr. Fahrenheit]

Thats sad...

I dont understand why those guys in Maranello dont copy the successful Mercedes Approach
and hire every available top techichian. And why the hell they cant get James Key for instance?

Or some guys from Force India? They seem to be quite smart.

You can't put the same ingredients in a different size tray, cook at a different temperature and expect the same cake at the end. The dynamics between the team change when you apply different working practices, responsibilities and pressures; Mercedes (or Force India) are organised quite differently to Ferrari.

It's a shame that the knives are out on the existing team. Last year they were hailed for working with a previously-unknown serenity at Ferrari and producing a car that would be the foundation for great things this year. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater (a practice Ferrari keep slipping back to) doesn't solve anything.

Conversely, let's presume this new brain trust actually produce the same chassis/engine package as they'd managed with their previous team minus the data that led up to its realisation.... would we really think it'll perform like a red Mercedes? There's a precedent in this case.... the Toyota TF013; it wasn't as good as the car it (near-literally) copied.

This is a good car they've made. Tactical errors have prevented us appreciating its technical strengths when it works well. Sometimes I think it's compared against what people want the car to be through expectation rather than subjectively analysing its strengths and weaknesses. The technical team isn't a bad one and the car is a step forward from last year. I look forward to the weekend hoping we can see the car operating at its maximum (good or bad) allowing some actual analysis and debate to take place.



EDIT: to offer brief history on the TF103, it was a car that closely resembled Ferrari's everything-winning F2002 from the previous year. Legal proceedings were brought against a former Ferrari employee. Aerodynamically and mechanically similar, it lacked the fancy electronics, software and know-how that allowed the F2002 to stick to the track.

[bl4zar_]

http://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferrar ... 61109/?s=1

Two tokens spent for the compressor, the turbine has been accepted as a reliability upgrade. - Motorsport