2016 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

[Schuttelberg]

Everyone needs to calm down and look at things with more perspective. Ferrari are behind Mercedes and everyone knows this really well, apart from Toto who doesn't fail to mention prior to the race or after that they're close.

What I want to say is that while there's no doubt about Mercedes' superiority, Ferrari are doing a good job. They're still second in the WCC, after a LOT of reliability/driver errors and they made the right decision to go 'maximum attack' as far as 2016 is concerned. I do feel the SF-16 is a very good car, but with a few big weaknesses. It's not going to be fast everywhere, but given the right circumstances, it can win. The season is young and while Mercedes-Benz should be complimented again for doing a brilliant job, it will be a bit dumb to not see that they're being really pushed. They've had their own share of gremlins, in terms of reliability and I won't be surprised to see a few more.

Lastly, the frustration is growing and valid among the tifosi, but unnecessary panic and wholesale changes accompanied by unwarranted criticism is not the solution. We need to be patient and give the team some time. I feel a race win is around the corner and having followed F1 for over two decades now, I think we can still fight for the titles, even from here.

[F1NAC]

I know that complexity doesn't necessary mean succes, but watching that w07 with all kinds of bits here and there I'm surprised that they arent that far away. i just hope that they dont sacrifice again 2017 car like they did 2014.

[mika vs michael]

Ferrari should shift their focus to 2017. It does not matter so much in the end if they finish 2nd or 3rd in the constructors championship. No one is near Mercedes on a steady basis. depending the circuit they are either close or further back but if mercedes does not screw things they can't beat them. 3 years of utter domination...welldone Merc. Ferrari needs to build a strong team in all areas maybe hire more people. it could be great if they could get aldo costa back. and they need a figure like Ross Brawn in charge.

[Schuttelberg]

Ferrari should shift their focus to 2017. It does not matter so much in the end if they finish 2nd or 3rd in the constructors championship. No one is near Mercedes on a steady basis. depending the circuit they are either close or further back but if mercedes does not screw things they can't beat them. 3 years of utter domination...welldone Merc. Ferrari needs to build a strong team in all areas maybe hire more people. it could be great if they could get aldo costa back. and they need a figure like Ross Brawn in charge.

I completely disagree. In a way, if you stop development on all fronts on the 2016 car, it has a direct knock on effect on the 2017 car, specially the power unit. I think Ferrari have enough resources to balance their focus on both projects. At the moment, Vettel is not out of the WDC and you never know in F1. A slight alteration in tyre pressures or just some mid season rule alteration could swing things back in Ferrari's favor. I do believe that on sheer pace, Ferrari are closer than they were in 2015. Again, Mercedes have done an excellent job, no doubt, but look at the series of problems that Hamilton is having on the reliability front! They are no doubt pushing the limits themselves. I think Baku was a atypical circuit, and the gap was exaggerated and circuit specific. Mercedes suddenly did not find 1.5 seconds in two weeks.

On the subject of hiring? Aldo Costa was a scapegoat when he was fired from Ferrari and Ross Brawn recognized that. He came up the ranks during the Ferrari glory years and I don't think he has any desire to return to Maranello. Plus, personally speaking I don't think the power unit is the reason for the gap to Mercedes. Ferrari seems to have a very competitive power unit themselves. I also feel F1 needs to move on. Shelf lives of engineers or great man managers are much more than drivers and they don't suddenly lose it, so while Ross Brawn would be an amazing catch, I just don't see him motivated enough or someone as a long term solution. Their is a lot of younger engineering talent at Maranello and it would be wiser to back them. Also, Arrivabene seems to be one of the better things at Ferrari so I see no reason to make big changes and upset continuity and team culture.

Ferrari have done an excellent job in closing the gap to Mercedes in these three years and as fans we just need to be patient and keep our expectations in check. Ferrari have a good team at the moment and while they might still fail, wholesale changes will only lead to another few years of transition and even then success isn't a guarantee. What Ferrari could do, is probably hire James Key from STR and have him and Allison work on the weaknesses of the current car. Other than that, a better driver alongside Vettel wouldn't harm us. But, that's about it.

[mika vs michael]

Shifting focus to 2017 does not mean totally abandon 2016. Ferrari's biggest issue I think is in season development rate. I think Mercedes and Rebull are better in that section and also Mercedes has better integration. I think Ferrari lacks in those two departments.

I have not suggested that Ferrari's biggest problem is the PU. Aldo Costa has to do with the chassis not the PU. James Key is fine as long as it is people that can add quality and of course there has to be the right scheme to organise those staff and make them cooperate more efficiently.

[giantfan10]

Shifting focus to 2017 does not mean totally abandon 2016. Ferrari's biggest issue I think is in season development rate. I think Mercedes and Rebull are better in that section and also Mercedes has better integration. I think Ferrari lacks in those two departments.

I have not suggested that Ferrari's biggest problem is the PU. Aldo Costa has to do with the chassis not the PU. James Key is fine as long as it is people that can add quality and of course there has to be the right scheme to organise those staff and make them cooperate more efficiently.

This development that everybody speaks so highly of seems to me to be most teams bringing different aero packages to different tracks.. front wings/rear wings ,tweaks to brake cooling and so on.
Where is all this in season development from other teams?
Lets exclude front wings and rear wings since they change at every track...
Ferrari has redesigned their rear suspension along with new hot air exit area and redesigned their air inlet and sidepods so far this year... can anyone list Mercedes and Red bulls changes?

[mika vs michael]

I have the impression that whenever Ferrari brings something new even if it is a different sticker on the car, there are tons of publications about the new Ferrari items. In the end the result is that matters and when you start the season with a big gap that shrinks in the end by 10% or 20% it is not enough. And I think that since testing was banned it was a big stroke against Ferrari and Ferrari owning a track next to their factory should not have accepted it.
The last Ferrari real title challenger was the 2008 car...in 2010 and in 2012 all knew that the car was a bit but clearly behind so it was matter of the driver and a bit better luck in order to get the title. It was the same in 1997 and 1998. We knew back then that Ferrari is a bit behind McLaren but it was MS and the relentless testing and updating that pushed the car to stay in the title chase.

You know when you have a real title challenger car. It makes a sub par 2nd driver look good. In 2016 Ferrari should do a 1997, 1998, 1999.. Defeated in the end but you knew the team was close. Actually in 1999 the team won the Constructors. 2015 looked like the 1996 when MS won 3 races and Ferrari ended a distant second in the championship. I think in 2016 they have not made the jump. It looks like they don't know enough about their own car how to set it up like they don't understand it enough to unlock the potential we all hear about but maybe there is no potential and it is what it is.

[giantfan10]

I have the impression that whenever Ferrari brings something new even if it is a different sticker on the car, there are tons of publications about the new Ferrari items. In the end the result is that matters and when you start the season with a big gap that shrinks in the end by 10% or 20% it is not enough. And I think that since testing was banned it was a big stroke against Ferrari and Ferrari owning a track next to their factory should not have accepted it.
The last Ferrari real title challenger was the 2008 car...in 2010 and in 2012 all knew that the car was a bit but clearly behind so it was matter of the driver and a bit better luck in order to get the title. It was the same in 1997 and 1998. We knew back then that Ferrari is a bit behind McLaren but it was MS and the relentless testing and updating that pushed the car to stay in the title chase.

You know when you have a real title challenger car. It makes a sub par 2nd driver look good. In 2016 Ferrari should do a 1997, 1998, 1999.. Defeated in the end but you knew the team was close. Actually in 1999 the team won the Constructors. 2015 looked like the 1996 when MS won 3 races and Ferrari ended a distant second in the championship. I think in 2016 they have not made the jump. It looks like they don't know enough about their own car how to set it up like they don't understand it enough to unlock the potential we all hear about but maybe there is no potential and it is what it is.

If they havent made a jump why is it that the SF16-H is faster than the Mercedes WO5 on every single track that they have qualified on so far in 2015 and 2016?
Ferrari is chasing a moving target in Mercedes and there is no reason they should hang their head based on current events.....
This current car and engine layout has had less than a year of racing and development Mercedes has evolved and worked on the same car and engine layout since 2012 from some reports...
They should be ahead.

[mika vs michael]

In sports everything is relative. It does not matter if you gain 5 secs in one year...if the rest have gained more. You may think you made the jump but it does not look like that to the ones outside (=fans, rest of the world). I guess everyone more or less gained something. The problem is that 3 years in succession Mercedes is clearly ahead by a considerable margin. In a few tracks Ferrari is very close but still behind. I'd prefer if Ferrari were far behind in some tracks but ahead in some others but it's not the case yet. Let's wait and see how the second third of the championship goes.
What I also find a bit frustrating is that in other times Ferrari even when they had a slower car they maximised its potential. I mean in the past in situations like Melbourne or Canada they would find through an inspired strategy a way to win. This year so far this does not seem the case.

[mika vs michael]

Most of my arguing has to do with the fact that I want to see the Ferrari thread a bit more alive...so have in mind I will keep arguing for the sake of it...

[Stalker1]

I think that the results achieved so far in this season are rather good. No wins for both drivers, but the car is clearly the second fastest car on the grid. Disappoitment at first, but if you consider the improvement from Red Bull and Renault and Mercedes reliability problems due to finally pushing the limits of the car, a solid result.

I think that the problem of the Ferrari is too much ideas, to little patience to choose one route and iron out minor problems, which occur from time to time. For example, lets take Williams. In 2014, they came out with their low-drag FW-36. With the class of the field Mercedes PU, it served them well in 2014 and with minor updates, in 2015 and 2016. Their car works reasonably well in the most circuits and although it gets beaten by the mid-field on the tracks like Monaco or Hungaroring, their overall perfomance during the season justifies the design route. They have one good general concept and they have maximized its potential over the years. Rob Smedley stated that why try to change the working design, a design that you understand, with the new design, which takes years to understand. Especially before a major rule change.

I think that Ferrari have done some things right. They adopted the short nose design, they have switched pack to more aerodynamically efficient push-rod suspension, they have tried to improve the packaging to have as slim back-end as possible. These major changes have been all positive. The devil lies in the details, though. They need to set-up one central aero development tree and use it. Less resources into the enigne development. More onto chassis and aero side.

[Vasconia]

I have the impression that whenever Ferrari brings something new even if it is a different sticker on the car, there are tons of publications about the new Ferrari items. In the end the result is that matters and when you start the season with a big gap that shrinks in the end by 10% or 20% it is not enough. And I think that since testing was banned it was a big stroke against Ferrari and Ferrari owning a track next to their factory should not have accepted it.
The last Ferrari real title challenger was the 2008 car...in 2010 and in 2012 all knew that the car was a bit but clearly behind so it was matter of the driver and a bit better luck in order to get the title. It was the same in 1997 and 1998. We knew back then that Ferrari is a bit behind McLaren but it was MS and the relentless testing and updating that pushed the car to stay in the title chase.

You know when you have a real title challenger car. It makes a sub par 2nd driver look good. In 2016 Ferrari should do a 1997, 1998, 1999.. Defeated in the end but you knew the team was close. Actually in 1999 the team won the Constructors. 2015 looked like the 1996 when MS won 3 races and Ferrari ended a distant second in the championship. I think in 2016 they have not made the jump. It looks like they don't know enough about their own car how to set it up like they don't understand it enough to unlock the potential we all hear about but maybe there is no potential and it is what it is.

During the Michael/Brawn/Todt years there was a clear idea of how to develop the car, this is why they improved every year. I have not seen this in Ferrari since 2007-2008. I hope 2016 is the first year for a constant and logic evolution but I have my doubts.

Strategically the team is a mess, we saw it clearly when Sebastian ignored the team and stayed, and it worked which was bad news for the team.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... 84#p635053

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I have this strong belief that, they should have a design office, somewhere in UK. The engineering and design talent pool is all centralized in UK and it is evident with Mercedes, McLaren, Red Bull and many other teams having their headquarters there. It's not a co-incidence that all these teams have made leaps and bound progress over the last decade, having been in UK. Even a Force India, which also has the head quarters in UK, churns better cars with the kind of budget they have.

So, I wasn't wrong in my assessment and someone else thinks the same too.

FERRARI ADVISED TO FOCUS ON 2017 AND INTERNATIONALISE

Speculation is rife in Italy suggest Maurizio Arrivabene’s job may be on the line, but Briatore said that is no the answer.

“Instead, they should internationalise,” he said. “Maranello is not a place that someone from England dreams of living in, so I would suggest they open up a technology department there.

“I know that in formula one things do not happen by miracle. In England, there are 10 teams within 60 kilometres — even Mercedes, who are German, are there, because if you want to make champagne, you’re better off in France.”

[Vasconia]

I have read this several times but Ferrari doesnt want to do it, they didnt do it even when they were twenty yers without winning a WC. The closest situation was under Michael´s reign when somehow they managed to hire people from different countries.

[santos]

I don't see why they need people in the UK... how many titles do they won til now with the base at Maranello? And there are teams wich are based at UK, that don't won a title or even a race for much long.