Silly Season 2016/2017

[iotar__]

After the Canadian Grand Prix, i think Kimi needs to go.
He has done his time and he is washed up.

Ferrari need a Sergio Perez right now or a Romain Grosjean to partner Sebastian. They need more fighting spirit and more youth in the next seat.
In fact.. if they even had to go back to Felipe Massa i wouldn't mind!

I think Kimi did a good race but his performance was seriously compromised by a strategy that didnt work.

What good race? It was another weekend below basic competence and had all to do with lack of pace compared to slower cars both in qualifying and the race. He was lucky Massa retired and Ricciardo was nowhere pace wise and making mistakes. They had a close second car at worst with Red Bull and Williams far behind and that was a good race ? His job was to pressure Merc. Then Monaco was good too. You just cannon spin that like that.

You can find a dozen of drivers without thinking that would be doing a better job or more if you consider that in '17 he will be even worse (age). The list is the same:
- 1. Grosjean 2. Bottas or (not available) Rosberg.
- Perez would be a good choice for a big team but with the right team-mate. Alonso at McL couple years ago. He can nail those tricky tracks: Monaco, Spa '15 but still feels like a bit of liability over one lap (on average) against the quickest drivers. Great car control and race speed - speed not only tyre management like TV salesmen tried to spin in Monaco.
- Ricciardo without best cars loses a lot of talent, like in Canada, pace, racecraft, overall consistency - putting the race and consecutive races together - running out of talent too often.
- Other Red Bull media only stars haven't shown anything pace and skills wise to deserve best cars. They all pretend to look good against each other and mostly between races. Hulkenberg showed considerably more and I'd rather see him in Ferrari.

[CBeck113]

All hackling aside, I can imagine this puts a strain on him, the Mercedes management doesn't look like they are easy and/or gentle negotiatiators.

When you have the fastest car on the grid, in which at least 30% of the current drivers could become WDC, you have every right to be demanding

[Jolle]

All hackling aside, I can imagine this puts a strain on him, the Mercedes management doesn't look like they are easy and/or gentle negotiatiators.

When you have the fastest car on the grid, in which at least 30% of the current drivers could become WDC, you have every right to be demanding

"Yes, but Lewis..."

[Vasconia]

After the Canadian Grand Prix, i think Kimi needs to go.
He has done his time and he is washed up.

Ferrari need a Sergio Perez right now or a Romain Grosjean to partner Sebastian. They need more fighting spirit and more youth in the next seat.
In fact.. if they even had to go back to Felipe Massa i wouldn't mind!

I think Kimi did a good race but his performance was seriously compromised by a strategy that didnt work.

What good race? It was another weekend below basic competence and had all to do with lack of pace compared to slower cars both in qualifying and the race. He was lucky Massa retired and Ricciardo was nowhere pace wise and making mistakes. They had a close second car at worst with Red Bull and Williams far behind and that was a good race ? His job was to pressure Merc. Then Monaco was good too. You just cannon spin that like that.

You can find a dozen of drivers without thinking that would be doing a better job or more if you consider that in '17 he will be even worse (age). The list is the same:
- 1. Grosjean 2. Bottas or (not available) Rosberg.
- Perez would be a good choice for a big team but with the right team-mate. Alonso at McL couple years ago. He can nail those tricky tracks: Monaco, Spa '15 but still feels like a bit of liability over one lap (on average) against the quickest drivers. Great car control and race speed - speed not only tyre management like TV salesmen tried to spin in Monaco.
- Ricciardo without best cars loses a lot of talent, like in Canada, pace, racecraft, overall consistency - putting the race and consecutive races together - running out of talent too often.
- Other Red Bull media only stars haven't shown anything pace and skills wise to deserve best cars. They all pretend to look good against each other and mostly between races. Hulkenberg showed considerably more and I'd rather see him in Ferrari.

Ricciardo would be the perfect choice. I am not that convinced with Grosjean, he is good but I think they should choose a younger driver.

Kimi´s race was compromised by a bad strategy but he defended himself well and I think he did a good job. Not great but good enough. I dont think that Kimi can deliver much more than this.

[flickerf1]

I think Carlos could be on the move. His driving was once again overshadowed by Max who won Driver of the Day, who won just because he defended from Nico (who had to save fuel). He went from 20th to 9th and didn't get much recognition. A move to Renault for 2017 and try to do what Fernando did in 2005 & 2006 seems good.

[Phil]

....except I don't see Renault winning anything in the next decade...

[Jolle]

....except I don't see Renault winning anything in the next decade...

I disagree. The team that's now Lotus won GP's every time when they were well funded. The RS16 is just a placeholder given to the racing team to keep their spot on the grid and their FOM money. It's a minimal developed '15 Frankenstein.
The team is well funded, the amount of engineers Renault could unleash is terrific (their combined lunch beaks for a week is prob the same amount of time the whole of McLaren has for a year).
They are the only team who are already 100% committed to the 2017 car (as soon as they bought the Lotus team in November 2015)

For 2017 it could be:
Leading pack: Mercedes, Ferrari and RedBull
Contenders: McLaren, Renault, Williams
Midfield: Force India, Toro Rosso, Haas
At the back: Manor and Sauber.

[Phil]

I fear the climate of Formula 1 has changed significantly and that being 'well funded' isn't enough. Not with these new PUs. And the competition is as strong as ever. Mercedes is incredibly well structured and experienced in winning under this new Formula. RedBull has always been extremely strong, especially in aero, which will become another focus as of 2017. Ferrari should never be written off. The enstone team.... sorry, I don't see it. The last they were at it, was in 2006/2007. 2008 to 2013, not even close. Yes, they had an edge sometime through 2012 on those lottery tires no team could fully understand till mid season, but that was the only reason. And the designer of that car, is now at Ferrari.

And don't even get me started on McLaren. I see a long way ahead of them and while I do see them overcoming their issues, I don't have much confident of them surpassing Mercedes, Ferrari and/or RedBull. They've had too many blunders when they didn't need to. Unforced ones. 2013, coming off 2012 in perhaps that seasons best car and the season Hamilton should have won in, was ridiculous. Then 2014, with the most powerful PU on the grid, a very sorry performance.

[Jolle]

I fear the climate of Formula 1 has changed significantly and that being 'well funded' isn't enough. Not with these new PUs. And the competition is as strong as ever. Mercedes is incredibly well structured and experienced in winning under this new Formula. RedBull has always been extremely strong, especially in aero, which will become another focus as of 2017. Ferrari should never be written off. The enstone team.... sorry, I don't see it. The last they were at it, was in 2006/2007. 2008 to 2013, not even close. Yes, they had an edge sometime through 2012 on those lottery tires no team could fully understand till mid season, but that was the only reason. And the designer of that car, is now at Ferrari.

And don't even get me started on McLaren. I see a long way ahead of them and while I do see them overcoming their issues, I don't have much confident of them surpassing Mercedes, Ferrari and/or RedBull. They've had too many blunders when they didn't need to. Unforced ones. 2013, coming off 2012 in perhaps that seasons best car and the season Hamilton should have won in, was ridiculous. Then 2014, with the most powerful PU on the grid, a very sorry performance.

I'm not saying that any team that is well funded does well (Toyota is the best example of that), but the people of Enstone (and even before that as Tolman) seems to have that special edge.
Funny you mentioned Mercedes, Renault took a good look at them. An English racing team/factory as a basis with a large factory as back-up. They already egnollaged the fact that PU integration is key. In the previous Renault-Enstone based team period they got the engine just as the other teams.

[ChrisDanger]

Just in case anyone missed this, I posted in the Red Bull thread...

This interview on f1.com with Christian Horner seems to hint that Ricciardo's contract runs into 2018. In particular:

Q: Press speculation has suggested Daniel’s contract could come to an end this season, prompting more rumours of a potential Ferrari move…

CH: …wrong, it does not come to an end this season.

Q: But there is a lot of talk…

CH: …but do all those who talk know his contract? No.

Q: Does that mean you will race with the same driver line-up in 2017?

CH: Yes. But not just 2017!

[superdowg316]

Just in case anyone missed this, I posted in the Red Bull thread...

This interview on f1.com with Christian Horner seems to hint that Ricciardo's contract runs into 2018. In particular:

Q: Press speculation has suggested Daniel’s contract could come to an end this season, prompting more rumours of a potential Ferrari move…

CH: …wrong, it does not come to an end this season.

Q: But there is a lot of talk…

CH: …but do all those who talk know his contract? No.

Q: Does that mean you will race with the same driver line-up in 2017?

CH: Yes. But not just 2017!

Contracts always have clauses and loopholes. If they didn't, Fernando Alonso would currently be a Ferrari driver still and Sebastian Vettel would probably still be at Red Bull. I would say that if Daniel thought he wasn't getting a championship contending car and wanted out, he could. Red Bull have many lower drivers ready to get into F1, a replacement could be found within 24 hours of his departure announcement (they did the same when Vettel left and announced Kvyat the same/next day). Sainz put in a great performance on the weekend, so no doubt he would more than likely replace him if he did go. Kvyat's out of Red Bull no matter what at the end of the season so Gasley and someone else will likely get a nice call up for Toro Rosso. Maybe Mitch Evens?

[superdowg316]

Looking at their website, the only two young drivers realistically that could go to Toro Rosso are Pierre Gasley and Sérgio Sette Câmara, and I don't even know whether the latter has enough points for a Super Licence. Niko Kari, Luis Leeds and Richard Verschoor are too young and I don't really know anyone else under the Red Bull umbrella that could be young enough to fit into Toro Rosso.

[Vasconia]

I'm not saying that any team that is well funded does well (Toyota is the best example of that), but the people of Enstone (and even before that as Tolman) seems to have that special edge.
Funny you mentioned Mercedes, Renault took a good look at them. An English racing team/factory as a basis with a large factory as back-up. They already egnollaged the fact that PU integration is key. In the previous Renault-Enstone based team period they got the engine just as the other teams.

I have some confidence in this Project. The founding seems to be enought, the strategy(mid term/long term) seems to be clear and focused, which is very important. Success cant be taken for granted but things seem to be done well. 2017 should be a good step forward, but 2018/2019 will be the years where the team should be a contender.

[Schuttelberg]

I think Kimi did a good race but his performance was seriously compromised by a strategy that didnt work.

What good race? It was another weekend below basic competence and had all to do with lack of pace compared to slower cars both in qualifying and the race. He was lucky Massa retired and Ricciardo was nowhere pace wise and making mistakes. They had a close second car at worst with Red Bull and Williams far behind and that was a good race ? His job was to pressure Merc. Then Monaco was good too. You just cannon spin that like that.

You can find a dozen of drivers without thinking that would be doing a better job or more if you consider that in '17 he will be even worse (age). The list is the same:
- 1. Grosjean 2. Bottas or (not available) Rosberg.
- Perez would be a good choice for a big team but with the right team-mate. Alonso at McL couple years ago. He can nail those tricky tracks: Monaco, Spa '15 but still feels like a bit of liability over one lap (on average) against the quickest drivers. Great car control and race speed - speed not only tyre management like TV salesmen tried to spin in Monaco.
- Ricciardo without best cars loses a lot of talent, like in Canada, pace, racecraft, overall consistency - putting the race and consecutive races together - running out of talent too often.
- Other Red Bull media only stars haven't shown anything pace and skills wise to deserve best cars. They all pretend to look good against each other and mostly between races. Hulkenberg showed considerably more and I'd rather see him in Ferrari.

Ricciardo would be the perfect choice. I am not that convinced with Grosjean, he is good but I think they should choose a younger driver.

Kimi´s race was compromised by a bad strategy but he defended himself well and I think he did a good job. Not great but good enough. I dont think that Kimi can deliver much more than this.

What are you saying mate? Kimi had the exact same strategy as Sebastian and it would take a monumental explanation to make me understand how Raikkonen didn't finish 3rd. Ferrari was at least the second fastest car at Canada. Rosberg was 10th at the end of Lap 1, had a puncture, similar brake warnings and fuel warnings as Raikkonen and a spin to boot and STILL finished ahead of Raikkonen.

Ferrari are clearly aiming to become World Champions again and Raikkonen is not consistent enough anymore to deliver that. I'm also of the view that you cannot just have one charger in your team. Those days and times are past and the threat of RBR beating Ferrari for the WCC is very real. If Kimi cannot deliver more than this, Ferrari or Raikkonen himself need to call time on his career.

Unfortunately, Ricciardo seems locked up at Red Bull. If I were Ferrari boss, I'd seriously not know who to hire. Grosjean, Perez, Hulkenberg, Bottas and Button are options. Sainz will be a serious gamble! Personally, I'd try to steal Rosberg or Ricciardo.

[Phil]

I think part of the problem with Kimi's race is that he got the bad end of the strategy twice. At the start, Rosberg cut back onto the track causing a bit of chaos. Thrn, on the first pit stop, both Vettel and Hamilton had already pulled a significant gap to the RedBulls in 3rd. Vettel pitted under the virtual safetycar but that phase ended as he was in. He still benefitted off it, just. Kimi did not.

Then, Vettel also had the advantage of running in clear air most of the race. The two Redbulls he caught, were both on old tires, so it was a straight forward pass, car on fresh tires vs car on old ones. Kimi never had that advantage, he was always racing against cars on pretty much identical tires.

Having said that, i do however agree that Ferrari will need change and Kimi doesnt cut it. He might have a lot of bad luck that is outside of his direct control, but i do think Ferrari needs two stellar drivers if they want to compete for championships.