2016 European Grand Prix - Baku City Circuit, Fri 17 – Sun 19 Jun

[ME4ME]

I have made a quick calculation. Lets say that Mercedes has a average speed of 340km/h (94,4m/s) for 2200m, they will cover the streight in 23,3s. For RB to be 1,2s slower on the long streight as sugessted by Marko, they would cover it in 24.5s. This would mean, that the RB car would go on average 89.8m/s or 323km/h.

There is no way that Renault engine is that down on power to warrant this kind of deficite, RB was 0.7 km/h slower in Canada quali then Mercedes.

However doubtful Marko's statement is, you can not prove him wrong with such basic calculation. It holds no value. You need to account for corner exit speed, acceleration, drag etc.

[FoxHound]

Well according to foxhound Renault and Mercedes are now equal on power.

Quote where I said this.

Honestly, I'll just avoid conversation with you as clearly you either cannot read, understand or just want to be plain obnoxious.

[FoxHound]

However doubtful Marko's statement is, you can not prove him wrong with such basic calculation. It holds no value. You need to account for corner exit speed, acceleration, drag etc.

Do you think Marko accounted for this in his "calculations"?

What holds no value is making stupid statements when not one factor is solely responsible for the end product, ie top speed, at a brand new track nobody has raced at. When this guy gets a bowl movement, it counts as a thought

[ME4ME]

Oh no, not at all. I mean it's always something other than the Red Bull having enough power to not only overtake cars with "superior" engines, but also to defend.
Ricciardo must have known that Rosberg would have these issues on the Sunday, as on Saturday he says...

“I think we’ve got pretty good straight-line speed now so we’re in a position to overtake.”

That wily Aussie eh?

So it's your assertion that Renault have not improved to the point of being able to overtake and defend against the likes of Ferrari and Mercedes, but rather that it was "an isolated incident" that stands as flaky evidence to skirt round the obvious, and flagrantly disregards what Ricciardo says, Renault say, Red Bull say(Marko apart obviously) and what most people could see as massive progress for from Renault for Red Bull.

What? At no point did I say Renault haven't made progress, or that Red Bull cannot defend or attack on the straights. I'm saying you cannot conclude that it's equal to the Mercedes and Ferrari engine now. Straight line speeds are a product of drag as well, anyway. You know that.

Even Renault says they aim to close the gap with their 2017 PU upgrade.

[ME4ME]

However doubtful Marko's statement is, you can not prove him wrong with such basic calculation. It holds no value. You need to account for corner exit speed, acceleration, drag etc.

Do you think Marko accounted for this in his "calculations"?

Marko doesn't calculate. He has a team for that. I'd say it accounts for more then this kind of extreme simplyfication posted on the internet.

What holds no value is making stupid statements when not one factor is solely responsible for the end product, ie top speed, at a brand new track nobody has raced at. When this guy gets a bowl movement, it counts as a thought

Exactly it holds no value. That's why I wrote a response to such worthless calculations. Whats your point?

[FoxHound]

My point was that Marko is full of hot air. Renault have made enough progress to the point you cannot outright blame the engine, as Mark has so preemptively done.
The clear outright comparison, was that Riccardo was sat close behind Raikkonen for a number of laps. He got mighty close sometimes, but couldn't pass.
Evidence of lacking power I here the Red Bull community cry.

Problem is, there was a Williams sat behind the Red Bull at this point in the race, with a Mercedes pony, and some tasty top speed numbers....couldn't utilise that in this battle though.

[FoxHound]

Marko doesn't calculate. He has a team for that. I'd say it accounts for more then this kind of extreme simplyfication posted on the internet.

That is plain laughable.

What do you think Marko is insinuating by making such outlandish statements? That Red Bull have poor traction out of corners?

Exactly it holds no value. That's why I wrote a response to such worthless calculations. Whats your point?

Ask Marko and his PR department at Red Bull.

[SR71]

Well according to foxhound Renault and Mercedes are now equal on power.

Quote where I said this.

Honestly, I'll just avoid conversation with you as clearly you either cannot read, understand or just want to be plain obnoxious.

You said the engine cannot be used as an excuse anymore. Marko seems to disagree and between the two of you only one has insider information from Red Bull.

You've said Renault/Ric/Red Bull all say one thing and use that to justify your position - but we both know those are PR statements and sometimes the real truth comes out the ass end of a company (in this case Marko).

Chances are even higher that both sides of the company are lying - still doesnt mean the PU isnt their weakest point. It is.

[SR71]

My point was that Marko is full of hot air. Renault have made enough progress to the point you cannot outright blame the engine, as Mark has so preemptively done.
The clear outright comparison, was that Riccardo was sat close behind Raikkonen for a number of laps. He got mighty close sometimes, but couldn't pass.
Evidence of lacking power I here the Red Bull community cry.

Problem is, there was a Williams sat behind the Red Bull at this point in the race, with a Mercedes pony, and some tasty top speed numbers....couldn't utilise that in this battle though.

So we're blaming the best chassis for lack of competitiveness?

That pour Renault PU stuck in that turd of a RB car....

How did the Renault works team fair in the last race? They should slay here in Baku due to that power horse PU.

[ME4ME]

Marko doesn't calculate. He has a team for that. I'd say it accounts for more then this kind of extreme simplyfication posted on the internet.

That is plain laughable.

What do you think Marko is insinuating by making such outlandish statements? That Red Bull have poor traction out of corners?

We all know what Marko means. Despite progress being made, they still lack that last bit of power. Like I said, even Renault acknowledges that.

[tomazy]

I have made a quick calculation. Lets say that Mercedes has a average speed of 340km/h (94,4m/s) for 2200m, they will cover the streight in 23,3s. For RB to be 1,2s slower on the long streight as sugessted by Marko, they would cover it in 24.5s. This would mean, that the RB car would go on average 89.8m/s or 323km/h.

There is no way that Renault engine is that down on power to warrant this kind of deficite, RB was 0.7 km/h slower in Canada quali then Mercedes.

However doubtful Marko's statement is, you can not prove him wrong with such basic calculation. It holds no value. You need to account for corner exit speed, acceleration, drag etc.

Well, his statmen was (at least I think so) that they will lose 1,2s becouse of engine alone. So I interpreted this that if they would have a Mercedes engine in a Red Bull car, they would be 1,2s faster down the streight. Becouse of this, there is no difirence in corner exit speed and drag on the car, the only variable is accelaration and top speed. I used average speed so that I can account for accelaration as well. I know I guesstimated alot, and that it is not perfect but the end result should be in the ball park.

Dont get me wrong, TAG HEUER engine is not as powerfoul as Mercedes, but the difirence is not 1,2s in 2200m of full throttle.

[Gaz.]

Have missed the race or something? If you are talking about the previous race then there is a thread for that.

So, in a poor attempt to get back on track (ha ha)... who do you think will top the speed traps?

If they are running skinny Monza wings, which many appear to in the pictures today, and a flat out section of 2.2km which I understand is twice as long as Monza's then I assume they will comfortably top the 350-255kph speeds achieved at the Italian circuit, 360 -370?

[FoxHound]

Marko doesn't calculate. He has a team for that. I'd say it accounts for more then this kind of extreme simplyfication posted on the internet.

That is plain laughable.

What do you think Marko is insinuating by making such outlandish statements? That Red Bull have poor traction out of corners?

We all know what Marko means. Despite progress being made, they still lack that last bit of power. Like I said, even Renault acknowledges that.

1.2 seconds was the headline.

The gap was 0.3(!!!) seconds around an engine track in qualy and with Merc "magic" button. Ferrari are level pegging Mercedes on the engine front and the gap to the was 0.160!

Behind, yes, behind to the point the chassis, aero and set up options cannot make a difference? C'mon....

[motobaleno]

I have made a quick calculation. Lets say that Mercedes has a average speed of 340km/h (94,4m/s) for 2200m, they will cover the streight in 23,3s. For RB to be 1,2s slower on the long streight as sugessted by Marko, they would cover it in 24.5s. This would mean, that the RB car would go on average 89.8m/s or 323km/h.

There is no way that Renault engine is that down on power to warrant this kind of deficite, RB was 0.7 km/h slower in Canada quali then Mercedes.

However doubtful Marko's statement is, you can not prove him wrong with such basic calculation. It holds no value. You need to account for corner exit speed, acceleration, drag etc.

Well, his statmen was (at least I think so) that they will lose 1,2s becouse of engine alone. So I interpreted this that if they would have a Mercedes engine in a Red Bull car, they would be 1,2s faster down the streight. Becouse of this, there is no difirence in corner exit speed and drag on the car, the only variable is accelaration and top speed. I used average speed so that I can account for accelaration as well. I know I guesstimated alot, and that it is not perfect but the end result should be in the ball park.

Dont get me wrong, TAG HEUER engine is not as powerfoul as Mercedes, but the difirence is not 1,2s in 2200m of full throttle.

your calculation was maybe oversimplified but a good approximation.
far from being worthless
this is plain clear for everyone who knows the difference between kinematics and dynamics

[ME4ME]

1.2 seconds was the headline.

The gap was 0.3(!!!) seconds around an engine track in qualy and with Merc "magic" button. Ferrari are level pegging Mercedes on the engine front and the gap to the was 0.160!

Behind, yes, behind to the point the chassis, aero and set up options cannot make a difference? C'mon....

Haha you are again putting words in my mouth. Have I said that chassis, aero and setup cannot make a difference? No.

I'm done. Soon Mr. Turbo will come and bitch-slap us both for de-railing this thread. I'll leave myself out while I can. Have a nice weekend Fox!