2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

[Manjhi]

I am expecting something during lap1 turn 1 to happen, definitely there is a crash at the 1st corner. I hope that to be both Mercs so that the rest of the thread is not filled with shits about Mercs drivers tomorrow and we could discuss something about racing as well.

You honestly think a turn 1 crash between Merc drivers is a way to avoid a race thread full of "shits about Mercs drivers"????
Also, you don't want to see a race between the fastest two cars???

You are strange and your opinion confuses me.

I have been following this forum since last 7-8 months I don't like the discussion like Mercs drivers dominate the threads.

I see the real race happening in the mid field.

[Moose]

Hamilton in '08.

You are joking...

Not at all. The Ferrari was very clearly a faster car than the McLaren in '08, but the fact that Kimi and Massa fought with each other a lot, and the fact that neither of them are really top-of-the-top end drivers let Hamilton win the championship with a slower car.

[basti313]

Lets get on to the race,
If Lewis is jumped by Ricciardo being on the dirty side of the grid, and lets say Red Bulls race pace is good so the top 4 are running all close to each other, how do Merc get Lewis in front of Ricciardo ? As giving him the undercut will put Rosbergs position ar risk. If Nico pits first Red Bull will react and cover Lewis on the next lap.

Well, that would mean he really has a bad start. Being on the inside helps, so I rather think the Mercs go 1-2 after the first lap with Ham in front as Ros will be forced to go wide in turn 1 as usual. After that the usual boredom festival in the front.

If a Merc drops back the tire wear will decide. Bulls can go 10 laps with good speed, Merc can go 5 laps more. But no one can pit after 10 laps due to traffic, so the Bulls would be an easy target after 10 laps.

Bulls vs Ferrari: I do not think anything will happen in the first stint and I think the Bulls will pull an aggressive SS-SS-S if possible. That would leave Vet without a chance, if the strategy works, but it will be interesting in case of traffic.

[FoxHound]

Hamilton in '08.

You are joking...

Not at all. The Ferrari was very clearly a faster car than the McLaren in '08, but the fact that Kimi and Massa fought with each other a lot, and the fact that neither of them are really top-of-the-top end drivers let Hamilton win the championship with a slower car.

Only that both McLaren and Ferrari had 8 poles, and that Hamilton had a rear gunner whereas Ferrari where each to their own. Meaning advantage McLaren.

[Moose]

You are joking...

Not at all. The Ferrari was very clearly a faster car than the McLaren in '08, but the fact that Kimi and Massa fought with each other a lot, and the fact that neither of them are really top-of-the-top end drivers let Hamilton win the championship with a slower car.

Only that both McLaren and Ferrari had 8 poles, and that Hamilton had a rear gunner whereas Ferrari where each to their own. Meaning advantage McLaren.

Oh sure, there were many reasons that Hamilton won the championship that were not "zomg, Hamilton is a golden god", but the fact remains, he won the championship in a car that was not as fast as the Ferrari.

[FoxHound]

@Siskue

But when Alonso was a danger to the track it's green...as Redragon has proven?

Mockery....

Despite my mistake for been Turn 10, feels to me weird that there were double yellow on turn 8 and 9 and green in turn 10 when Alo is between 9 and 10 at that time. But when Ros arrived to the area Alo was on the moved, so why it was still yellow flag? And it was double yellow or just yellow? Because it feels a bit extreme double yellow for just one spun

I think the real reason for no penalty is that the conditions did not allow for double yellow, and the FIA and every single poster here knows it,

@Siskue

But when Alonso was a danger to the track it's green...as Redragon has proven?

Mockery....

By the time Rosberg actually reaches that turn the light was off.

Can this be proven? If so, no case to answer for Ros.

[FoxHound]

Not at all. The Ferrari was very clearly a faster car than the McLaren in '08, but the fact that Kimi and Massa fought with each other a lot, and the fact that neither of them are really top-of-the-top end drivers let Hamilton win the championship with a slower car.

Only that both McLaren and Ferrari had 8 poles, and that Hamilton had a rear gunner whereas Ferrari where each to their own. Meaning advantage McLaren.

Oh sure, there were many reasons that Hamilton won the championship that were not "zomg, Hamilton is a golden god", but the fact remains, he won the championship in a car that was not as fast as the Ferrari.

And yet, both cars had 8 poles. So how did you come to this conclusion?

[Moose]

I think the real reason for no penalty is that the conditions did not allow for double yellow, and the FIA and every single poster here knows it,

That shouldn't matter.

The fact is, that a driver, in an F1 car can not know whether the thing that lies around the corner is a single wishbone lying in the track off the racing line, or a 10 ton tractor. No matter what, when they see double waved yellows, they must slow. If the FIA haven't learnt to enforce that rule after Bianchi's crash, I have no idea what will teach them.

[Moose]

And yet, both cars had 8 poles. So how did you come to this conclusion?

Because, as I said above - the Ferrari was being driven by two somewhat middle of the line drivers, not anyone at the top end of the field. Both Massa and Kimi have proven subsequently to not be even close to the level of Alonso or Vettel. Hamilton has shown that he's up there with Alonso.

[FoxHound]

I think the real reason for no penalty is that the conditions did not allow for double yellow, and the FIA and every single poster here knows it,

That shouldn't matter.

The fact is, that a driver, in an F1 car can not know whether the thing that lies around the corner is a single wishbone lying in the track off the racing line, or a 10 ton tractor. No matter what, when they see double waved yellows, they must slow. If the FIA haven't learnt to enforce that rule after Bianchi's crash, I have no idea what will teach them.

Does not absolve the wrong decision being made by the marshals/stewards.

[FoxHound]

And yet, both cars had 8 poles. So how did you come to this conclusion?

Because, as I said above - the Ferrari was being driven by two somewhat middle of the line drivers, not anyone at the top end of the field. Both Massa and Kimi have proven subsequently to not be even close to the level of Alonso or Vettel. Hamilton has shown that he's up there with Alonso.

Sorry, you cannot say Car X is better than car Y because driver A is so much better than driver B. It's subjective, and Hamilton had an advantage of not having to fight his own team mate.

[Jolle]

Pure speculation: pole for Hamilton, Rosberg second, Verstappen third and Vettel fourth. Good start by Vettel but taking our Verstappen and a Mercedes at the first corner.

Bit off this time, but with a fifth for Vettel and two teammates battles in front of him, still "hoping" on a bit of billiards at the first corner.

[Moose]

And yet, both cars had 8 poles. So how did you come to this conclusion?

Because, as I said above - the Ferrari was being driven by two somewhat middle of the line drivers, not anyone at the top end of the field. Both Massa and Kimi have proven subsequently to not be even close to the level of Alonso or Vettel. Hamilton has shown that he's up there with Alonso.

Sorry, you cannot say Car X is better than car Y because driver A is so much better than driver B. It's subjective, and Hamilton had an advantage of not having to fight his own team mate.

Once again - not saying that circumstances didn't conspire to make him champion, much like they did in '07 to make Kimi champion, but the McLaren was absolutely not the better car.

I think it's entirely reasonable to observe driver comparisons in the same car, and draw the conclusion that Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel are on a similar level, but that Massa and Kimi are significantly below that level, and that as a result it's reasonable to infer that the Ferrari was a better car being driven by worse drivers in '08.

[sosic2121]

And yet, both cars had 8 poles. So how did you come to this conclusion?

Because, as I said above - the Ferrari was being driven by two somewhat middle of the line drivers, not anyone at the top end of the field. Both Massa and Kimi have proven subsequently to not be even close to the level of Alonso or Vettel. Hamilton has shown that he's up there with Alonso.

experts and computer models agree that 2007 Ferrari was better car, and 2008 Mclaren was better. to say that massa and kimi then were mediocre drivers simply not fair. kimi was hugely fast while he cared, and massa was never the same after that spring...
hamilton is fast but he has issues.

[sAx]

And yet, both cars had 8 poles. So how did you come to this conclusion?

Because, as I said above - the Ferrari was being driven by two somewhat middle of the line drivers, not anyone at the top end of the field. Both Massa and Kimi have proven subsequently to not be even close to the level of Alonso or Vettel. Hamilton has shown that he's up there with Alonso.

...
hamilton is fast but he has issues.

Those 'issues' are good for F1....otherwise he'd have more WDC's, more Poles, more wins, more podiums, more fastest laps...pretty boring eh?