2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - Mercedes

[Jolle]

It's not so much that they haven't got the workforce, all teams are limited to a certain amount of wind tunnel and CFD time.

It's also quite possible that they don't have a clear cut in development but for instance use 20% of the available time for the '16 car and 80% for the '17 car.

[dans79]

It's also quite possible that they don't have a clear cut in development but for instance use 20% of the available time for the '16 car and 80% for the '17 car.

That's kind of what I was referring to. That 20% time will come with the caveat that the concept will need to be able to be used on the 2017 car.

[Jolle]

It's also quite possible that they don't have a clear cut in development but for instance use 20% of the available time for the '16 car and 80% for the '17 car.

That's kind of what I was referring to. That 20% time will come with the caveat that the concept will need to be able to be used on the 2017 car.

It's a clever team with clever people, because of the huge advantage, good chance they already made some design choices for the W08 on the W07 (the big air intake for instance), so they are more flexible with the space of the side pods.

[TAG]

Very interesting video showing the race predictor Mercedes uses. Illustrates a lot of fallibility IMO and I'm sure it's exactly why we've seen some of the hiccups along the way, Monaco 2015 possibly but certainly Austria 2016.

https://www.facebook.com/MercedesAMGF1/ ... 199977411/

Take a look around the 1:58 mark.

IMO it's the reason they got into the Lewis/Nico mess to begin with, the computer doesn't think with the human intent of deception it's purely strategic and it's why they've called in Hamilton in Austria when he clearly had pace to finish the race without the second pit stop the predictor causing the Nico undercut and giving him the lead. It doesn't care for anything but a 1-2 and doesn't care which driver is which. Seems like a nice thing to have but it's clearly wrong to think that Lewis had anything other issues but controlling the race from the front to suit last weekend.

[Just_a_fan]

It doesn't care for anything but a 1-2 and doesn't care which driver is which.

In fairness, Mercedes only care for a 1-2. They don't care which driver is which because the team is working for the manufacturers' title. The drivers' title comes after that and without favour to either driver.

[TAG]

In fairness, Mercedes only care for a 1-2. They don't care which driver is which because the team is working for the manufacturers' title. The drivers' title comes after that and without favour to either driver.

Not my point though, what Merc are doing would be like hiring a hot club DJ and then forcing him to play songs from your play list. What's the point?

I understand that they're doing it because the dominance affords them the control, but as competition gets tighter you have to think in alternatives and the computer mentality tends to compromise the driver that can make the strategy work in the process of salvaging the driver that's struggling and it's indiscriminate. There's no question in my opinion this is what led to the contact in Hungary because Nico should not have been ahead if there was a logic deeper than the singular plane thinking of a 1-2.

[Jolle]

Very interesting video showing the race predictor Mercedes uses. Illustrates a lot of fallibility IMO and I'm sure it's exactly why we've seen some of the hiccups along the way, Monaco 2015 possibly but certainly Austria 2016.

https://www.facebook.com/MercedesAMGF1/ ... 199977411/

Take a look around the 1:58 mark.

IMO it's the reason they got into the Lewis/Nico mess to begin with, the computer doesn't think with the human intent of deception it's purely strategic and it's why they've called in Hamilton in Austria when he clearly had pace to finish the race without the second pit stop the predictor causing the Nico undercut and giving him the lead. It doesn't care for anything but a 1-2 and doesn't care which driver is which. Seems like a nice thing to have but it's clearly wrong to think that Lewis had anything other issues but controlling the race from the front to suit last weekend.

I presume this is not the date they are actually running the strategy on, looks more like a simple average lap time over x laps minus the gap algorithm for the fans app. They have large teams on three places making all the calculations. A big board with colour circles looks a bit silly and simple then.

[TAG]

I presume this is not the date they are actually running the strategy on, looks more like a simple average lap time over x laps minus the gap algorithm for the fans app. They have large teams on three places making all the calculations. A big board with colour circles looks a bit silly and simple then.

You presume right but presenting complex data in a complex way, well anyone can do that. Presenting is simply, that's very difficult and very elegant.

[Just_a_fan]

In fairness, Mercedes only care for a 1-2. They don't care which driver is which because the team is working for the manufacturers' title. The drivers' title comes after that and without favour to either driver.

Not my point though, what Merc are doing would be like hiring a hot club DJ and then forcing him to play songs from your play list. What's the point?

That's exactly the point. The driver is employed by the team to help the team win the title. If, in the process, the driver wins their title too then great. But the team's priority is the team's result.

The drivers will bitch about it at times but they'll do what they're paid to do because that keeps them in the winning car.

The only way to get what you want - a Hamilton win - every time is to have named No. 1 and No. 2 drivers. But Hamilton doesn't want that so why should you? The last time a team was formed around a single driver, Schumacher's team mates were just ride-alongs mopping up points. It was not a good thing to watch.

F1 is a team sport and the driver is just one part of that team. If it wasn't for the modern celebrity culture, people wouldn't need reminding of that.

[flickerf1]

2016 Hungary - Lewis Hamilton, the global icon: https://vimeo.com/176237111

[TAG]

The only way to get what you want - a Hamilton win - every time is to have named No. 1 and No. 2 drivers. But Hamilton doesn't want that so why should you? The last time a team was formed around a single driver, Schumacher's team mates were just ride-alongs mopping up points. It was not a good thing to watch.

How would you presume that? Not turning this into a driver thing, but one driver on the team is likely a 4 time WDC and the other driver is Nico Rosberg. It's like that for a reason.

Did you not read my DJ analogy? How else would you possibly explain Mercedes' decision to pull Hamilton in for a second pitstop in Austria and consequently Mercedes being responsible for the contact headache?

Go long in Monaco, Go long in Canada but in Austria let's pull him in because he won't make it to the end? Despite other drivers in cars known to be harsh on their tires gone longer without loss of pace? That's a computer making a decision not a human being. It's got nothing to do with wanting a number 1 and number 2, on the contrary, Mercedes would create a much more competitive environment if they had different strategists for each driver both looking to gain their best individual result.

[dans79]

F1 is a team sport and the driver is just one part of that team. If it wasn't for the modern celebrity culture, people wouldn't need reminding of that.

It was an individual championchip first, they only added the constructors championship after the fact. Most likely to keep the 1950s equivalent of the Millennials interested.

[Phil]

I agree pretty much with this Tag. The only issue for a team like Mercedes to have each side of the garage have their own strategist is that it would lead to a self-destruct scenario. First of all, the data sharing among both garages would be tricky, as it would be deemed giving away an advantage, yet exactly this data sharing is what arguably pushes the team forward and to new lengths. Then, having two strategists would also mean that you are certain to have the toughest opponent across the garage, in the same car, with no ability to protect the teams interest. Imagine fearing an undercut by the driver across the garage, so you cover it off and compromise both drivers race towards a 3rd party. Can't really have that happen either.

I pretty much like that there are certain rules to the artificial racing. The guy who is leading the race has pit stop priority. That is only fair. This however makes it more difficult for the guy behind, but if he wants that changed, maybe he should have focused on a better start or a better qualifying. On quite a few circuits, having the quicker driver behind will lead to that driver somehow getting ahead. Not always, but sometimes. Other races like Barcelona, Monaco, Hungary and Brazil where it's extremely hard - it just puts more pressure to perform better on Saturday for a better starting position...

I think for the most part, Mercedes is doing a good job at managing the fairness of the competition, even though Austria was a big WTF strategic position and I remain in my belief that that collision was fully deserved towards Mercedes and the team and a direct consequence of whoever pulled those strings that led to those two meeting on track at that time.

[TAG]

Given the alternatives we've seen in the past with a number two driver being told to pull over for the number one on the last lap... I fully agree. I just think that Mercedes are trying to have their cake and eat it too, it's competition but competition to a point and it's not difficult to see through that. Nobody wants the number 1 and number 2 driver mentality if you're a fan of racing. I also fully understand that the business is to ensure the maximum result for the team, but again it's only a POV afforded by the current superiority, not something that will be fiddled with should next year's regulations shake things up.

[PlatinumZealot]

Very interesting video showing the race predictor Mercedes uses. Illustrates a lot of fallibility IMO and I'm sure it's exactly why we've seen some of the hiccups along the way, Monaco 2015 possibly but certainly Austria 2016.

https://www.facebook.com/MercedesAMGF1/ ... 199977411/

Take a look around the 1:58 mark.

IMO it's the reason they got into the Lewis/Nico mess to begin with, the computer doesn't think with the human intent of deception it's purely strategic and it's why they've called in Hamilton in Austria when he clearly had pace to finish the race without the second pit stop the predictor causing the Nico undercut and giving him the lead. It doesn't care for anything but a 1-2 and doesn't care which driver is which. Seems like a nice thing to have but it's clearly wrong to think that Lewis had anything other issues but controlling the race from the front to suit last weekend.

Holy shitsnacks!
Even the computer is programmed to secure the win for Rosberg! what the hell?