Team: James Allison (TD), Simone Resta (CD), Corrado Lanzone (Head of production), Loic Bigois (HA), Dirk De Beer (HA), Jock Clear (ED), Mattia Binotto (HE), Rory Byrne (Tech Advisor), Massimo Rivola (SD), Maurizio Arrivabene (TP), Sergio Marchionne (Chairman)
Drivers: Sebastian Vettel (5), Kimi Raikkonen (7)
Since diffusers won't carry over to next year, there's no compelling reason to adopt a new concept at this point, because the gains would be short-lived and nowhere near worth the hassle.Thunders wrote:To me it looks like "we don't know how to achieve it the elegant way, so we slap more Wings on it until we get what we want."
100% agree....donskar wrote:As a loyal Ferrari fan for over 55 years, it pains me to say this, but the Ferrari simply is not good enough. And it probably is not good enough in several areas: engine, aero, mechanical grip, reliability, race tactics, morale-- you name it.
Recent posters have surmised the Ferrari needs better aero, more rake, more testing, more development, etc, etc. YES to all of the above, and more.
James Allison has proven he is NOT the answer (and all sympathy to him for his wife's untimely death). We hear he wants out -- to return to England -- understandable. Certainly, Ferrari has the money and the mythic presence to hire nearly any man or woman it wants (except Newey). What is needed is NOT more talented individuals, but a more talented TEAM. Reportedly, Ferrari is interested in getting Brawn back. That MIGHT help create a TEAM, rather than a group of individuals. IMHO, Ferrari needs to create a team, then let it do its job without extraordinary outside pressures and expectations. Not likely to happen, but we can dream . . .
I didn't feel offended at all... My feelings won't get hurted on the internet. I was just saying that the way you feel about the diffuser of Ferrari, i feel the same about other solutions on other teams. It's not just the Merc Bargeboard. It's about how much difference does that upgrade on the car. And yes i am also with you on the question about the diffuser.Thunders wrote:But we're in the Ferrari Thread and the Merc Bargeboard surely has been discussed in the W07 Thread. Although i guess what Merc does with their serrated Bargeboards is a little different than what Ferrari does at the Diffusor. But i don't know, that's why i ask. If you feel offended by it (purely going by the Tone of your Post, if not, all is good) i'm sorry. I think i wrote it in a pretty non offensive Tone because i don't want to bash Ferrari, i want to know WHY they do what they do.
To me it looks like they are trying too hard to build a team. They really are trying hard to get a new Schumi. First Alonso, and now Vettel is the guy that should carry them all.donskar wrote:As a loyal Ferrari fan for over 55 years, it pains me to say this, but the Ferrari simply is not good enough. And it probably is not good enough in several areas: engine, aero, mechanical grip, reliability, race tactics, morale-- you name it.
Recent posters have surmised the Ferrari needs better aero, more rake, more testing, more development, etc, etc. YES to all of the above, and more.
James Allison has proven he is NOT the answer (and all sympathy to him for his wife's untimely death). We hear he wants out -- to return to England -- understandable. Certainly, Ferrari has the money and the mythic presence to hire nearly any man or woman it wants (except Newey). What is needed is NOT more talented individuals, but a more talented TEAM. Reportedly, Ferrari is interested in getting Brawn back. That MIGHT help create a TEAM, rather than a group of individuals. IMHO, Ferrari needs to create a team, then let it do its job without extraordinary outside pressures and expectations. Not likely to happen, but we can dream . . .
Thunders wrote:So for an Aero noob, what exactly is Ferrari trying to achieve with all those Flaps and Winglets on the side of the Diffusor (and all the slots on the side of the RW Endplate too in the Dissusor Area)? To me it looks like "we don't know how to achieve it the elegant way, so we slap more Wings on it until we get what we want." Of course that is most likely very far from what is really going on but that is just the impression i get after seeing them adding more elements over and over. Seeing the RedBull or McLaren on the other hand, there is just one clean Diffusor and that's it.
http://cdn-8.motorsport.com/images/mgl/ ... detail.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CoC1XE6XgAE-1UB.jpg
I agree with your analysis GPR-A. RB, Mercedes and McLaren have a flat-topped diffusor design, basically allowing themselves more volume while staying within the regulations. In order to help evacuate the air from the sides of the diffusor I believe that they use the low-pressure wake from the rear tires, which they control with vortices from the front wing and barge boards. Ferrari have taken the safer route and use the curved sides to fix the volume of the diffusor, but because of the drop on the sides they need to condition the flow over the edges of the diffusor, which means one winglet after the other is being added (ok, was being added). My opinion is that this design is out-dated, since flow condition allows designers to enlarge parts of the car without breaking any rules, and is definitely the correct path to take, even if it isn't easy to simulate.GPR-A wrote: http://cdn-8.motorsport.com/images/mgl/ ... detail.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CoC1XE6XgAE-1UB.jpghttps://media.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/shrinkn ... ZmJhYg.png http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/u ... 2003_2.jpg
I am not an aero expert, but this is just what I feel. It appears as if there is too much of unmanaged airflow at the rear that is creating, more than necessary drag while exiting the car. So, it seems like a desperate attempt to break the pressure and reduce the drag at the rear. It is quite possible that, they are simply unable to send as much pressured air to rear as they want and efficiently handle what they are sending.
http://cdn-8.motorsport.com/images/mgl/ ... detail.jpg
Compare it with RB12 here, there are no complex wing structures near the diffuser, no serrations on the rear wing, but they still manage to have a great deal of downforce and doesn't seem to be vulnerable for excess drag.
http://imgr1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Re ... 960647.jpg
Everything you said is true, but we can't know "how much" wing is RB running. We don't even know the angle of the air before it runs over rear wing. Is it horizontal?giantfan10 wrote:Compare it with RB12 here, there are no complex wing structures near the diffuser, no serrations on the rear wing, but they still manage to have a great deal of downforce and doesn't seem to be vulnerable for excess drag
Sounds really good but i think your logic is flawed.
So red bull the team that generates more downforce than any other car without the excess drag then chooses to run much more wing on average while complaining about having a weaker engine.... none of this computes.
I think the fact that red bull produced massive amounts of downforce during the blown diffuser era is somehow being carried over to this era and used as justification for the claims about their aero prowess.
Running more wing than other cars on average shoots the assumption that they have great aero right in the foot
