Lewis Hamilton has won the German Grand Prix in dominant fashion, leading each lap after taking the lead at the start of the race. Daniel Ricciardo and Max Verstappen completed the podium whereas Nico Rosberg finished 4th following a difficult start and an in-race time penalty.
siskue2005 wrote:inititally i thought it was Nico's fault, but after watching this excellent analysis by Davidson i have changed my mind https://streamable.com/mh8i
wow, same here. not so sure any more.
verstappen's move under breaking forced Nico to steer and probably compromised his breaking.
can someone please explain to me why is verstappen's move on ricciardo legal? he is off the track. I don't understand
It looked to me Verstappen was going to turn in then saw Rosberg in his mirrors and pulled out of the corner.
Verstappen would of received a penalty if he violated any rules in the eyes and data of the stewards?
he would, but it's so subtle, borderline with him, if they start to penalize that stuff, and they would have to look at every driver, there wouldn't be end to it, and that would certainly interfere with racing
my guess - that sort of defense worked fine earlier in his career, but it will not fly here, not for long anyway, he was very lucky for Kimi not to take him out in the previous race, and he would learn the lesson not from stewards, but from his own team first
siskue2005 wrote:inititally i thought it was Nico's fault, but after watching this excellent analysis by Davidson i have changed my mind https://streamable.com/mh8i
wow, same here. not so sure any more.
verstappen's move under breaking forced Nico to steer and probably compromised his breaking.
can someone please explain to me why is verstappen's move on ricciardo legal? he is off the track. I don't understand
just watched that too and i'm now giving a large portion of blame for this incident to Max...it was not all rosberg....
that swerve towards rosberg under braking that Max did knowing that rosberg was on the inside is what started the chain of events.
as far as the off the track move i think it was agreed that cars would be allowed to use the entire curb without going over the outside edge
siskue2005 wrote:inititally i thought it was Nico's fault, but after watching this excellent analysis by Davidson i have changed my mind https://streamable.com/mh8i
wow, same here. not so sure any more.
verstappen's move under breaking forced Nico to steer and probably compromised his breaking.
can someone please explain to me why is verstappen's move on ricciardo legal? he is off the track. I don't understand
So he made a very late move from very far away and braked to late. Multiple questionable decisions and he did drove him off the circuit. It didn't help him he got a history with driving fellow drivers off track.
giantfan10 wrote:as far as the off the track move i think it was agreed that cars would be allowed to use the entire curb without going over the outside edge
siskue2005 wrote:inititally i thought it was Nico's fault, but after watching this excellent analysis by Davidson i have changed my mind https://streamable.com/mh8i
wow, same here. not so sure any more.
verstappen's move under breaking forced Nico to steer and probably compromised his breaking.
can someone please explain to me why is verstappen's move on ricciardo legal? he is off the track. I don't understand
just watched that too and i'm now giving a large portion of blame for this incident to Max...it was not all rosberg....
that swerve towards rosberg under braking that Max did knowing that rosberg was on the inside is what started the chain of events.
as far as the off the track move i think it was agreed that cars would be allowed to use the entire curb without going over the outside edge
What he said is that he turned in and then had to open up to avoid being dive bombed by Rosberg. If you look at it he made the move at the point where you normally would turn in, so consistent with that story. But it would not surprise me if he already knew Rosberg was coming and just gave it a small twitch at the right moment to spook rosberg.
But it so subtle impossible to tell the intention or to penalize. I guess that is the difference between a smart and a well, ...... not so smart driver.
In any way VES did his team quite a big favor, if he would not have stopped ROS, I don't think RIC would have been second.
As for the move at the start, technically he already had a good portion of his car in front of RIC when he crossed the white line with his inside wheels, so I'm not sure whether it would even qualify as a pass outside of the track.
siskue2005 wrote:inititally i thought it was Nico's fault, but after watching this excellent analysis by Davidson i have changed my mind https://streamable.com/mh8i
wow, same here. not so sure any more.
verstappen's move under breaking forced Nico to steer and probably compromised his breaking.
can someone please explain to me why is verstappen's move on ricciardo legal? he is off the track. I don't understand
So he made a very late move from very far away and braked to late. Multiple questionable decisions and he did drove him off the circuit. It didn't help him he got a history with driving fellow drivers off track.
90% in the decision was probably his history on track.
On the other hand, Verstappen is really pushing what you can do on the track
I really don't think Rosberg should've been given a 5 sec penalty. It wasn't anything like Austria where he didn't even try to turn in; this time you can definitely see he was at full lock. One could argue that he should've turned in earlier, but I think he would've locked up and ended up even wider. I find there is a lot of inconsistency in the penalty system (e.g. Hamilton vs. Rosberg 2015 USA).
And while I am impressed overall with VES, he really needs to stop moving under braking!
Favorite Team: Scuderia Ferrari
Favorite Driver: Nico Hülkenberg
I think NR messed up but it was nothing like Aus, he should of just been warned. But, even with Davidsons review, it was still silly and he blocked the road for Max pushing him off the track regardless of anything else, which is what i think they Steward and penalising him for.
2015 USA was blatant understeer from hitting a wetter patch on the apex, nothing like comparable to deliberately driving someone off the before the apex....again.
Verstappen did nothing wrong, really. I dont understand why hes under fire.
Rosberg came from MILES and MILES away. it was rather surprising he took that gamble to go with.
Verstappen decently looked in his mirrors despite you could have forgiven him not expecting Nico there.
He actually spotted Nico's move and didnt move further, hence, 'blocking' Nico, though imho, he had the line there
and Verstappen had all the right continuing his 'blocking' move there as Nico was too far back still then and there
would have been no way Nico could have passed him there at that point.
Instead, Max gave him room, lots of room, too much room imho, he probably did that because like he said in the press conference (big LOL there),
that Nico has a tendency to make that dirty move (just ask Lewis lol).
Surprisingly, that wasnt enough still, but that was not Verstappens fault. It is clear for everyone to see Nico steered in late, just like he did against Lewis.
He didnt lock up even here, he had no braking issues, so it was all Nico there.
He could - and should- have turned in earlier. If he couldnt due to the daring move, that only shows that the move was wrong judgement to begin with.
instead, he turned in late, really really late, so late that he forced Verstappen off track.
Did nico move the steering wheel? yes. did he push it into full lock? yes. but he could - and should - have turned in full lock earlier, he turned in slightly,
and THEN went into full lock.
To be honest, Nico's penalty was deserved for a multitude of reasons.
First of all, the rule is simple: FORCING A DRIVER OFF TRACK.
did Nico force Max off track? absolutely yes, without a moment of doubt.
everything else really is only adding, that alone is simple enough to answer.
second of all, Nico did not act to avoid colliding with Verstappen, where verstappen did ALL he could to not collide.
third of all. Nico's racing incident history shows EXACTLY a multitude repeat of exactly these incidents, so its not like its the first
time he does a move like this. you could argue had this never happened before, he could have gotten away with it. own fault.
the only 'bad luck' nico had in all of this is that his team made an error and he got 8 seconds instead of 5, though im going to go tinfoil hat here,
and dare say they might done it on purpose to make him aware of previous warnings, but that's just far fetching here.
the loads of luck nico had was that max actually gave room and avoided collision there, since if he defended more vigerously, ther would have been collision.
so really, why the attacking on max when HE did all things right and mature and insightfull to AVOID colission, where NICO did ALL he could to create collision.....really guys.
Verstappen taking one for the team also a great sign of sportmanship and teamplay. His 1st lap overtake was brilliant, he deserved that 2nd spot.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"
Nico has a long history of shoving others off the track, with the potential of causing a major track event, even a fatality. He had it coming and deserved it.
Max is another guy that has it coming, but he still in his honeymoon period with the stewards. The "circus" aspect of F1 is in love with "the teenager", an appellation that evokes child prodigy. Max will be straightened pretty sharply as soon as that love wears out.
The love affair will either last until next season, or the gods of F1 will wait until he is twenty and can no longer be called "the teenager"... Then, BOOM!
That said, Max is really talented, so there is a huge chance he'll straighten out on his own.
siskue2005 wrote:inititally i thought it was Nico's fault, but after watching this excellent analysis by Davidson i have changed my mind https://streamable.com/mh8i
wow, same here. not so sure any more.
verstappen's move under breaking forced Nico to steer and probably compromised his breaking.
can someone please explain to me why is verstappen's move on ricciardo legal? he is off the track. I don't understand
It is basics of racing to anticipate the leading driver's movement and don't go in blindly into a corner thinking, I will throw this one inside and THE LEADING DRIVER MUST NOT MAKE ANY MOVES. Anthony was plain wrong there because there are thousands of instances where the driver trying to overtake, in similar situations, makes corner and moves fast. For Max to not move, Nico should have been side by side and then in that case if Max had moved, it was his fault.
GrandAxe wrote:Max is another guy that has it coming, but he still in his honeymoon period with the stewards. The "circus" aspect of F1 is in love with "the teenager", an appellation that evokes child prodigy. Max will be straightened pretty sharply as soon as that love wears out.
The love affair will either last until next season, or the gods of F1 will wait until he is twenty and can no longer be called "the teenager"... Then, BOOM!
That said, Max is really talented, so there is a huge chance he'll straighten out on his own.
Just because some arm chair experts here believe he was wrong, doesn't mean he is wrong. For as long as Stewards continue to believe he has made no mistake, then it is OK. Same stewards have penalized Nico, so that says it wasn't Max's fault.
Rightly so.... Verstappen: Complaints won't make me stop racing hard
I will say it was tough but possibly a fair penalty because upon watching replays I believe max was just turning into the corner and with nico arriving at a rate of knots he had to stop turning to avoid an incident. I think it was the first part of the manuevre which cost Rosberg the penalty and not the fact max ended up on the outside of the track on the exit.
The other thing I think that Rosberg should have done is cede the position back and have another go later and he may have just avoided the penalty.
