The Sauber F1 Team is pleased to announce that Pascal Wehrlein will complete the team’s driver line-up for the 2017 Formula One World Championship. He will race alongside Swede Marcus Ericsson who continues with the Swiss team.
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Aesto wrote:Why is everyone (not just this thread, but also F1 journalists) harping on Bottas all of a sudden for supposedly not impressing against Massa any more? He finished last season with 12% more points than him, this season he's ahead by over 50%. If anything, the gap between the two is widening. It's not his fault the Williams isn't podium capable anymore.
What the hell is going on Williams? they have the best PU but they are going backwards.
I guess Williams and Ferrari have made a pact to down together. Both are going backwards at the moment. =D>
Aesto wrote:Why is everyone (not just this thread, but also F1 journalists) harping on Bottas all of a sudden for supposedly not impressing against Massa any more? He finished last season with 12% more points than him, this season he's ahead by over 50%. If anything, the gap between the two is widening. It's not his fault the Williams isn't podium capable anymore.
What the hell is going on Williams? they have the best PU but they are going backwards.
I guess Williams and Ferrari have made a pact to down together. Both are going backwards at the moment. =D>
Williams invested huge in their 2014 design and didn't do much development afterwards. 2015 wasn't too bad but the setback this year is calculated in, just like 2013.
Expect a strong Williams in 2017.
The only problem that they might face, it that there are 5 works teams next year, who could all be faster then "privateer" Williams. Points will be difficult for most non-works teams.
Vasconia wrote:
What the hell is going on Williams? they have the best PU but they are going backwards.
I guess Williams and Ferrari have made a pact to down together. Both are going backwards at the moment. =D>
Williams invested huge in their 2014 design and didn't do much development afterwards. 2015 wasn't too bad but the setback this year is calculated in, just like 2013.
Expect a strong Williams in 2017.
The only problem that they might face, it that there are 5 works teams next year, who could all be faster then "privateer" Williams. Points will be difficult for most non-works teams.
Well, the 2014s peformance was thanks to an awesome PU and car made to be fast on straights. I dont see such a great work here.
Aesto wrote:Why is everyone (not just this thread, but also F1 journalists) harping on Bottas all of a sudden for supposedly not impressing against Massa any more? He finished last season with 12% more points than him, this season he's ahead by over 50%. If anything, the gap between the two is widening. It's not his fault the Williams isn't podium capable anymore.
What the hell is going on Williams? they have the best PU but they are going backwards.
It could be they have made a car that's quick on its base version, which is the one that rolled out in 2014, and relative minor to develop throughout lifecycles. Thinking how F1 cars develop within rules and technical regulation changes, 2015 and 2016 haven't been massive changes in terms of rules and technical regulations. So that means most teams develop their cars through the base version which was introduced in 2014, which the current Williams FW37 would be in its third lifecycle this season and probably the last. Next season I believe because of the relative big technical regulation changes, a whole new car will be drawn, developed and build.
What also could be the case is how much development wise the team has shifted. Have they planned on relatively minor upgrades for this season and shifted full attention on 2017 early on the season?
wickedz50 wrote:
I guess Williams and Ferrari have made a pact to down together. Both are going backwards at the moment. =D>
Williams invested huge in their 2014 design and didn't do much development afterwards. 2015 wasn't too bad but the setback this year is calculated in, just like 2013.
Expect a strong Williams in 2017.
The only problem that they might face, it that there are 5 works teams next year, who could all be faster then "privateer" Williams. Points will be difficult for most non-works teams.
Well, the 2014s peformance was thanks to an awesome PU and car made to be fast on straights. I dont see such a great work here.
Al lot better then McLaren and Force India, both with the same PU. They were clearly the best bunch of the midfield.
Jolle wrote:
Williams invested huge in their 2014 design and didn't do much development afterwards. 2015 wasn't too bad but the setback this year is calculated in, just like 2013.
Expect a strong Williams in 2017.
The only problem that they might face, it that there are 5 works teams next year, who could all be faster then "privateer" Williams. Points will be difficult for most non-works teams.
Well, the 2014s peformance was thanks to an awesome PU and car made to be fast on straights. I dont see such a great work here.
Al lot better then McLaren and Force India, both with the same PU. They were clearly the best bunch of the midfield.
Yes, it worked because the approach was very simple. Let the car be super fast on straights. In 2015 they tried to make a more dynamic car but it didnt work so well, and in 2016 things are worse.
Aesto wrote:Why is everyone (not just this thread, but also F1 journalists) harping on Bottas all of a sudden for supposedly not impressing against Massa any more? He finished last season with 12% more points than him, this season he's ahead by over 50%. If anything, the gap between the two is widening. It's not his fault the Williams isn't podium capable anymore.
What the hell is going on Williams? they have the best PU but they are going backwards.
I think they have put all of there resources on the 2017 project.
Either way, it was already known back in 2014 that the rules revision in 2015 (regarding the nose and crash structures) would have a negative impact for the Williams car,
which was evident immediately. Its safe to assume the car was designed how the 2014 season started, with the idea of holding that one until the end of 2016 more or less.
Unfortunately for them, they had to change the nose and it seems it had a great impact, which probably has a collateral effect for the entire car physics. They obviously
were helped by the 2014 Mercedes engine advantage.
After all, the power advantage of the 2014 Mercedes engine compared to its rivals in 2014 was huge, 2015 less, and in 2016 a lot less. In other words, the Merc engine
of 2014 helped Williams greatly, and i personally think the team invested a lot of money in the 2014 car to have it fast from the get-go, compromising development to
once again invest in 2017 revision.
So Williams 'slump' is not too unexpected and unsurprising.
Williams is rather in the spotlights this year for 2 reasons: their car is notoriously hard to overtake due to its capability to drive fast on the straights,
and their design causes a wake that screws up the car behind them, third reason really actually are their superfast pitstops. Everybody has their eyes on their
pitstops now so thats good exposure and it sets a new standard for the other teams. They also win time with it, remember, last years they had the worst pitstops
of the field. If they had the pitstops of this year last years they might have even had even better results, but thats just guessing.
Also their tactics are better this year, pitting at better moments putting them in better position, unfortunately though, they still lack results.
The point about Bottas imho is that to be honest, i never ever thought he shined at all. He had the privilidge of having a great car in 2014, which helped him massively.
Still, he did not throw any specials into the game despite being at Williams longer. Last year to be honest saw a drop in his performance and to be honest i think he made
some rather clumsy moves, and his Raikkonen collecting wasnt the shiniest of moments either. He also seems rather unfaded every race. Thing is, i dont see any potential
in Bottas as a race winner, let alone a WDC. So if he's neither, what's the use really? He's rather Hulkenberg-ish at best.
And frankly, i think he's served his time at Williams with no real mentionable achievements, which is ultimately why imho, i wont let go of any tears having him out of atleast
Williams. Perhaps he can do a switch with Perez, pairing Hulk at Force India.
Also, Bottas showed quite messy driving in Baku, and the race before.
One should be able to expect more from the guy by now. I think if you compare him to Perez, he's the weaker one, especially taking into account Perez brings a whopping load
of more money to the table.
So if i were Williams, and i had the choice between Bottas and Perez, it would be a easy Perez for me.
The second spot would be a clear Button to me. I dont believe in a transition year with Massa, he already has given input and knowledge, and Button has similar experience.
Frankly, i think Button might be even more useful as he comes from a Mclaren that was in a slump and he might have some valuable info from the Honda devision, regarding
the electric and combustion engine parts, and perhaps also the mclaren size zero packaging, remember Williams a couple years ago surprised with their insanely tight
gearbox?
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"
LookBackTime wrote:Dimi PAPADOPOULOS @f1enigma
Great scoop by @oscarisaari. Valtteri Bottas has offers from Williams and Renault for next year.
I still see Bottas as a luxury backup driver for the Mercedes team, if anything happens to Rosberg or Hamilton. He needs to keep a close eye on his main competitor Wehrlein, who himself needs to look at Ocon.
With Mercedes set for two more seasons it's less likely to move up for him to a works team like that. Other options are difficult. Next year Renault, year after McLaren (to replace Alonso?) or even Ferrari to take Vettels place (if he had enough and moves to McLaren-Honda).
One more year at Williams might not be that bad, but would be slightly risky for 2018.
Perez is in more or less the same deal, but for him seems to be lesser seats available. Ferrari 2018 might be an option but McLaren seems unlikely.
I think there is a lot of traffic from drivers managers at Renault. Sporting wise maybe not the best seat in 2017 but being a works driver might be more important.
Why anyone would choose Williams over Renault is beyond me. To fight for championships I'd pick the manufacturer team any day. Renault is not here to make up the numbers. This year was always going to be a write off. Williams are doing their best with very limited resources and will always be struggling against this. Renault might well rise to the top again, but at the very least start outperforming Williams soon. It's well worth the gamble.
ChrisDanger wrote:Why anyone would choose Williams over Renault is beyond me. To fight for championships I'd pick the manufacturer team any day. Renault is not here to make up the numbers. This year was always going to be a write off. Williams are doing their best with very limited resources and will always be struggling against this. Renault might well rise to the top again, but at the very least start outperforming Williams soon. It's well worth the gamble.
It's all a big poker game with talent and time. 10 seats available, 3 year window. RedBull is unavailable as it seems (what gives Verstappen and Ricciardo the edge, they have a seat the others can't have), Mercedes and Ferrari are the big prizes, McLaren a good third option at the moment and Renault if you can't get one of the above.
If you would sign a 3 year deal with Renault for instance, that's it.,, no Ferrari or Mercedes.
I dont see Verstappen and Ricciardo having the edge, I'd say the opposite.
They have a huge que of young talented winning drivers waiting for their seats. Plus Red Bull have already shown, they will ditch a driver without much notice.
Kvyat, Vergne, Buemi, Alguersuari ect.
With the likes of Sainz Jr, Gasly , de Costa and Co all doing their most to take a seat in Red Bull, Kvyat shows some bad luck and poor showings ,could be game over.
GoLandoGo
Lewis v2.0
King George has arrived.
New found love for GT racing with Assetto Corsa Competizione on PS5 & PC
Kvyat is already gone basically. Besides that not too much tree shaking for redbull in the coming years. Helmut is satisfied that the top two positions are filled with the creme de la creme and its now just a matter of waiting for danny or max to leave, or fall off their game.
Surprised no one is spitballing buemi for the renault seats... It is obvious he has won the drive. Magnuessen has failed to destroy palmer so surely he is not valued any more as a lead driver. I say fifty percent chance he will be dropped with Palmer. The sure shot is beumi though and his teammate will either be Kmag, Ocon or Massa who is a known quantity. Not perez though.
Why not Perez? Renault would have Perez in a heartbeat but Perez feels he is too good for them at the moment. The factory drive is tempting but he is aiming for that ferrari seat and the best thing for him is to wait it out in force india till 2018.
