Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

[FW17]

It simply needs to be standardized canopy for different categories which is supplied by an external agency like a helmet manufacturer.

Aircon is not important, the driver is already inside a helmet, how much of an aircon is he going to get?

[FW17]

A canopy could take a tire, or a nose cone, but it can't take the weight of a car landing on top of it or worse,

Strongly disagree, a canopy would be as resistant as the survival cell, because it IS part of the survival cell. If it did not crush on that accident, a closed cockpit wouldn´t either, but with extra protection from broken and sharp carbon pieces

I don't know the answer to the question but do they subject LMP1 cockpit to any test other than roll over test?

[Jolle]

A canopy could take a tire, or a nose cone, but it can't take the weight of a car landing on top of it or worse,

Strongly disagree, a canopy would be as resistant as the survival cell, because it IS part of the survival cell. If it did not crush on that accident, a closed cockpit wouldn´t either, but with extra protection from broken and sharp carbon pieces

Look at the tire fire test, it has flex, and that's just a tire. A inch thick transparent canopy can never be as strong as a metal or carbon structure.

[Jolle]

It simply needs to be standardized canopy for different categories which is supplied by an external agency like a helmet manufacturer.

Aircon is not important, the driver is already inside a helmet, how much of an aircon is he going to get?

Aircon is more then just making it cooler. Cooling could be done by some holes like a helmet. The big problem is fumes from technical difficulties like overflowing batteries, electrical fires etc etc.

Cost: a canopy, (almost) as strong as a Halo, which fits a F3? How much would that cost? Vs a two piece steel tube structure with three anker points. 30k vs 1k?

[FW17]

It simply needs to be standardized canopy for different categories which is supplied by an external agency like a helmet manufacturer.

Aircon is not important, the driver is already inside a helmet, how much of an aircon is he going to get?

Aircon is more then just making it cooler. Cooling could be done by some holes like a helmet. The big problem is fumes from technical difficulties like overflowing batteries, electrical fires etc etc.

Cost: a canopy, (almost) as strong as a Halo, which fits a F3? How much would that cost? Vs a two piece steel tube structure with three anker points. 30k vs 1k?

Aircon not needed, ventilate the helmet with air pipe

The canopy for an F3 is going to be a aeroscreen with a top. F1 aeroscreen is made of carbon, F3 aeroscreen will be with stell pipe as the Halo with 1/2 inch polycarbonate.

How much do you think a NHRA canopy costs?

Schumacher’s father and team owner Don Schumacher pushed for the added layer of protection since the beginning of the season. The 25-pound canopy, made by an Indianapolis company, costs around $16,000, a team official said.

[Gerhardsa]

The last couple of posts is a pointless debate.
They will implement the Halo (or something very similar to it), and not a canopy ever. Why?
What is the fundamental difference between this canopy concept for F1, compared to LMP?
LMP cars have doors, which are used to get in and out of the car. It goes without saying that it doubles as an escape route for the occupant in case of an accident.

F1 cars do not have doors and will never be redesigned to have doors, so a canopy is out of the question. Why?
Because that freak accident is possible where a driver is trapped in a car that is upside down, on fire and with debris that punctured the drivers body somewhere and he is unconscious .

No doors with a "fighter jet like" canopy, and that type of scenario....you can just as well bring a body bag to the accident scene.

Halo is still open so some sort of extraction is still possible with all the openings.

Now you say, fighter jets don't have doors, so why do they successfully work with a canopy?
Well, if you end up, upside down on the ground in a fighter jet...well, you will be dead from the impact or the explosion.

At those types of speeds (Which far exceeds F1 speeds), you don't need doors if you land on your "roof" cause you will not exist anymore.

[FW17]

F1 cars do not have doors and will never be redesigned to have doors, so a canopy is out of the question. Why?
Because that freak accident is possible where a driver is trapped in a car that is upside down, on fire and with debris that punctured the drivers body somewhere and he is unconscious .

No doors with a "fighter jet like" canopy, and that type of scenario....you can just as well bring a body bag to the accident scene.

So you are saying the top engineers of F1 cant put together a failsafe device to open a canopy when the car is on its roof?

[Gerhardsa]

That's your interpretation?

Don't quote me out of context and insinuate that I am saying something I clearly am not. Nowhere did I say the engineers wont be able to design something clever for a upside down car.

I am just stating the obvious here.

No doors, no canopy/tin top... its as simple as that

[rscsr]

why shouldn't a F1 car have no doors? I mean a LMP1 basically opens the canopy, but part of the sidepod can be removed when necessary to remove the driver with the seat from the side. I really don't see the difference there, why they never will have "doors".

[Gerhardsa]

why shouldn't a F1 car have no doors? I mean a LMP1 basically opens the canopy, but part of the sidepod can be removed when necessary to remove the driver with the seat from the side. I really don't see the difference there, why they never will have "doors".

Dont really have an answer for that. Tradition I suppose?
But the side pod cover is just well...a carbon fibre cover. Remove that, and you are into crash structures, radiators etc.
F1 cars are so tightly packaged already, would seem pretty hard to make arrangements like that to remove a driver.
They can already remove the driver in his seat out of the cockpit. Doing it from the side, means you will have to in some way have "door" access into the tub, which creates more safety concerns as the tub is supposed to be like a survival cell.

[Jolle]

It simply needs to be standardized canopy for different categories which is supplied by an external agency like a helmet manufacturer.

Aircon is not important, the driver is already inside a helmet, how much of an aircon is he going to get?

Aircon is more then just making it cooler. Cooling could be done by some holes like a helmet. The big problem is fumes from technical difficulties like overflowing batteries, electrical fires etc etc.

Cost: a canopy, (almost) as strong as a Halo, which fits a F3? How much would that cost? Vs a two piece steel tube structure with three anker points. 30k vs 1k?

Aircon not needed, ventilate the helmet with air pipe

The canopy for an F3 is going to be a aeroscreen with a top. F1 aeroscreen is made of carbon, F3 aeroscreen will be with stell pipe as the Halo with 1/2 inch polycarbonate.

How much do you think a NHRA canopy costs?

Schumacher’s father and team owner Don Schumacher pushed for the added layer of protection since the beginning of the season. The 25-pound canopy, made by an Indianapolis company, costs around $16,000, a team official said.

Whats the point of the polycarbonate? Debris? Stones? Gritt? What's the advantage of a halo like aero screen with obscured sight and higher costs?

[Andres125sx]

LMP cars have doors, which are used to get in and out of the car. It goes without saying that it doubles as an escape route for the occupant in case of an accident.

F1 cars do not have doors and will never be redesigned to have doors

Any reason or just your hope?

LMP cars have doors exactly because they use closed cockpits, if F1 goes to closed cockpits, they will use doors, period.

[Jolle]

LMP cars have doors, which are used to get in and out of the car. It goes without saying that it doubles as an escape route for the occupant in case of an accident.

F1 cars do not have doors and will never be redesigned to have doors

Any reason or just your hope?

LMP cars have doors exactly because they use closed cockpits, if F1 goes to closed cockpits, they will use doors, period.

I think one of the most dangerous moments of close cockpit (GT etc) racing is when cabin fills with smoke and drivers even try to escape still moving cars or even opens doors and undo seatbelts.

A driver jumping out of a car on track during a race is very dangerous and must be avoided as much as possible.

[FW17]

Whats the point of the polycarbonate? Debris? Stones? Gritt? What's the advantage of a halo like aero screen with obscured sight and higher costs?

To me the current Halo is designed wrong, it should have 2 supports on either side of the cockpit instead of a center support.

The aeroscreen structure is the right structure for the Halo

Hence the aeroscreen without the polycarbonate is a halo, with the polycarbonate and a roof is a canopy

The halo to the aeroscreen is not a very high cost, has a lot more advantages than just the halo

[FW17]

That's your interpretation?

Don't quote me out of context and insinuate that I am saying something I clearly am not. Nowhere did I say the engineers wont be able to design something clever for a upside down car.

I am just stating the obvious here.

No doors, no canopy/tin top... its as simple as that

Then why think of a scenario from the 60's?