2016 Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team - Mercedes

[dans79]

Maybe that was the "deal"? I think I recall a bit of talk if it was fair to have Lewis take a new engine in all 3 sessions to set himself up an advantage vs Rosberg towards till the end of the season. On the other hand, if the new engine is only introduced in Suzuka and Rosberg gets his last and 5th engine then, it might level out considering Hamilton with more less used "old spec" engines vs Rosberg with the newer spec one as of Suzuka...

The other question being; how much advantage will that new spec engine be? Only time will tell.... Tough luck of Lewis means that he needs to take a new engine now so might as well take as many as he can or risk one go up in smoke...

I think this means Merc will not have an upgrade later, because it would be a pr nightmare for the team If it influenced the championship in anyway.

[Jolle]

Maybe that was the "deal"? I think I recall a bit of talk if it was fair to have Lewis take a new engine in all 3 sessions to set himself up an advantage vs Rosberg towards till the end of the season. On the other hand, if the new engine is only introduced in Suzuka and Rosberg gets his last and 5th engine then, it might level out considering Hamilton with more less used "old spec" engines vs Rosberg with the newer spec one as of Suzuka...

The other question being; how much advantage will that new spec engine be? Only time will tell.... Tough luck of Lewis means that he needs to take a new engine now so might as well take as many as he can or risk one go up in smoke...

I think this means Merc will not have an upgrade later, because it would be a pr nightmare for the team If it influenced the championship in anyway.

That's the whole thing, Hamilton didn't get a new engine (ICE), he got two new turbos and MGU-K units. On the ICE front, Rosberg and Hamilton are still in sync (starting with both their fourths this weekend). So any upgrade to the ICE in supposedly Suzuka will be the fifth engine for both of them, without penalties.

[Straggler]

Is there any restriction on how many new PU elements that cause penalties you can use in the car for a race weekend?

I mean, if Hamilton is set to start at the back of the grid why don't use a brand new PU (all 6 elements) in every session - P1, P2, P3 and Q and thus be 100% sure that he will be free of penalties for the rest of the season even if multiple elements failures occur in the 9 races til the end?

For me it's absolute no-brainer to gain a whopping 14 more free of penalty elements for the rest of the season at the cost of NOTHING at all if starting from the pits and currently at the cost of only 1 grid place to Alonso if starting from the grid.

[Jolle]

Is there any restriction on how many new PU elements that cause penalties you can use in the car for a race weekend?

I mean, if Hamilton is set to start at the back of the grid why don't use a brand new PU (all 6 elements) in every session - P1, P2, P3 and Q and thus be 100% sure that he will be free of penalties for the rest of the season even if multiple elements failures occur in the 9 races til the end?

For me it's absolute no-brainer to gain a whopping 14 more free of penalty elements for the rest of the season at the cost of NOTHING at all if starting from the pits and currently at the cost of only 1 grid place to Alonso if starting from the grid.

They could. They even could do this 21 times at the first race to have a fresh PU at every event.
If the teams didn't agreed with the rule, they could start the first or second Grand Prix like that and basically nothing would happen.

The teams stand behind this rule. It's quite an effective way to minimise the amount of engines that are build, a 5x increase would cost millions and millions that can go to R&D now. This is a rule that the teams like to bend a bit (like having two new pieces when the first one still works) but don't want to misuse or go around.

[ClarkBT11]

Is there any restriction on how many new PU elements that cause penalties you can use in the car for a race weekend?

I mean, if Hamilton is set to start at the back of the grid why don't use a brand new PU (all 6 elements) in every session - P1, P2, P3 and Q and thus be 100% sure that he will be free of penalties for the rest of the season even if multiple elements failures occur in the 9 races til the end?

For me it's absolute no-brainer to gain a whopping 14 more free of penalty elements for the rest of the season at the cost of NOTHING at all if starting from the pits and currently at the cost of only 1 grid place to Alonso if starting from the grid.

They could. They even could do this 21 times at the first race to have a fresh PU at every event.
If the teams didn't agreed with the rule, they could start the first or second Grand Prix like that and basically nothing would happen.

The teams stand behind this rule. It's quite an effective way to minimise the amount of engines that are build, a 5x increase would cost millions and millions that can go to R&D now. This is a rule that the teams like to bend a bit (like having two new pieces when the first one still works) but don't want to misuse or go around.

Don't the team have to fit the new elements in between paractices and the race. They can't just say we want X amount of elements?

[dans79]

That's the whole thing, Hamilton didn't get a new engine (ICE), he got two new turbos and MGU-K units. On the ICE front, Rosberg and Hamilton are still in sync (starting with both their fourths this weekend). So any upgrade to the ICE in supposedly Suzuka will be the fifth engine for both of them, without penalties.

Do you have a source/confirmation of this? when I woke up this morning I read that he had gotten new everything before FP1.

In general the F1 press sucks at getting details like this right the first time.

[ClarkBT11]

That's the whole thing, Hamilton didn't get a new engine (ICE), he got two new turbos and MGU-K units. On the ICE front, Rosberg and Hamilton are still in sync (starting with both their fourths this weekend). So any upgrade to the ICE in supposedly Suzuka will be the fifth engine for both of them, without penalties.

Do you have a source/confirmation of this? when I woke up this morning I read that he had gotten new everything before FP1.

In general the F1 press sucks at getting details like this right the first time.

Autosport says Hamilton and Rosberg received new engine both with a five token upgrade.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.ph ... de-for-spa

[Phil]

Maybe that was the "deal"? I think I recall a bit of talk if it was fair to have Lewis take a new engine in all 3 sessions to set himself up an advantage vs Rosberg towards till the end of the season. On the other hand, if the new engine is only introduced in Suzuka and Rosberg gets his last and 5th engine then, it might level out considering Hamilton with more less used "old spec" engines vs Rosberg with the newer spec one as of Suzuka...

The other question being; how much advantage will that new spec engine be? Only time will tell.... Tough luck of Lewis means that he needs to take a new engine now so might as well take as many as he can or risk one go up in smoke...

He would've taken a 15 positions penalty no matter what, which would've put him right in no man's land so he might as well go for the back of the grid, it's safer imo.

Yeah, I know. I was more referring to internal-team-politics that may limit the scenario in which Lewis could take 3 new engines for every season to maximize his chances for the WDC vs. Rosberg. I think Toto said something along the lines that something like that would need to be looked at earlier, in regards to them wanting a "level playing field". It beats me too.

Of course from Hamiltons perspective, starting 15th or dead last isn't much of a difference and I'd maximize any components or parts I could if it were me.

[Jolle]

That's the whole thing, Hamilton didn't get a new engine (ICE), he got two new turbos and MGU-K units. On the ICE front, Rosberg and Hamilton are still in sync (starting with both their fourths this weekend). So any upgrade to the ICE in supposedly Suzuka will be the fifth engine for both of them, without penalties.

Do you have a source/confirmation of this? when I woke up this morning I read that he had gotten new everything before FP1.

In general the F1 press sucks at getting details like this right the first time.

Autosport says Hamilton and Rosberg received new engine both with a five token upgrade.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.ph ... de-for-spa

Plus, it's all on the official FIA site. It isn't speculation.

[diego.liv]

The fact Ham got installed his 5th ICE maybe is because tomorrow he'll fit the 6th

Rumoured/likely Merc won't introduce another token-based upgrade later in the season

[Jolle]

The fact Ham got installed his 5th ICE maybe is because tomorrow he'll fit the 6th

Rumoured/likely Merc won't introduce another token-based upgrade later in the season

He (and Rosberg) installed their fourth ICE.

[Jolle]

The fact Ham got installed his 5th ICE maybe is because tomorrow he'll fit the 6th

Rumoured/likely Merc won't introduce another token-based upgrade later in the season

He (and Rosberg) installed their fourth ICE.

My mistake, they posted some more after this

http://www.fia.com/file/46843/download?token=IZ8rwtrJ
http://www.fia.com/file/46858/download?token=ph33FI70

[dans79]

The fact Ham got installed his 5th ICE maybe is because tomorrow he'll fit the 6th

Rumoured/likely Merc won't introduce another token-based upgrade later in the season

He (and Rosberg) installed their fourth ICE.

My mistake, they posted some more after this

http://www.fia.com/file/46843/download?token=IZ8rwtrJ
http://www.fia.com/file/46858/download?token=ph33FI70

so based on the FIA FP2 updates Lewis picked up a new ICE, TC, MGU-H, & MGU-K before FP2

http://www.fia.com/file/46858/download?token=ph33FI70 (PU updates)
http://www.fia.com/file/46860/download?token=6IYZZkuM (Stewards decision)
http://www.fia.com/file/46887/download?token=qIIYsjAH (Stewards decision)

So post FP2 the allocation looks like this.

Driver  ICE	TC	MGU-H	MGU-K	ES	CE
Lewis  	5	7	7	5	4	4
Nico  	4	4	4	4	3	3

I'm going to go with no more upgrades this year for Merc, unless its to the ES or CE. Same reasoning as before, they can take/handle the negative PR hit they would get.

[adrianjordan]

Based on that I'd fit a new ICE and MGU-K to Lewis' car for FP3 if I were Merc...just to give him a safety margin...

Personally I agree with the poster above who says scrap the rule. I'd get rid of this rule but cap the cost of PU contracts to customer teams. If the manufacturers want to spend mega-mega-bucks and have a new spec at each race then so be-it, but they have to make those available to their customers as well.

[Cold Fussion]

I still cannot fathom how the original penalty rules were scrapped for this system which just makes a complete mockery of the 5 component per season rule.

Both this situation and the old situation where penalties carried over to the following race are ridiculous.

Each set of rules has a varying impact depending on whereabouts you'd normally expect to start a race, but neither situation is preferable in my opinion. I'd prefer if they didn't limit the number of power units.

Perhaps the old system could have used some tweaking but it just blows my mind the FIA is perfectly ok with a team taking 1 race to start from the back of the grid and then potentially having 8 or 9 complete power units for a whole season.