2016 Singapore Grand Prix - Marina Bay, 16-18 September

[PlatinumZealot]

How is the undercut in this race?

[godlameroso]

The race is all about choosing when you want to be fast, that said track position is very important. An undercut can only work if you don't have to pass anyone to make it stick. Also is it just me or have they re-paved the road? Looks much better than last year.

[carisi2k]

I mean just look at this difference between ferrari and merc in baku:
https://streamable.com/mlyc
look at the speedo. Merc is in the league of their own on the amount of ERS they're able to deploy.

Sorry, I don't see how you're able to tell when they're deploying. Do you think Mercedes are deploying on every straight and for the entire straight? Andy Cowell's quote above suggests they have around 3 seconds of deployment available per lap.

You can tell when they are deploying because they can deploy ers just about everywhere on a circuit these days. The current formula allows for 4mj a lap which provides way more then 3-4 seconds a lap of electrical boost .

[f1316]

So James Allen was talking about two possible strategies:

- US-SS-SS
- SS-S

But I wonder if US-US-S/SS is an option? With all those ultra softs, you've got to think Ferrari intend to use them and very much doubt they'll be wanting to do a 3 stop.

[ChrisDanger]

Some photos from yesterday, as cars are unwrapped and bolted together.















Who will be standing here on Sunday night?



Source.

[ChrisDanger]

I mean just look at this difference between ferrari and merc in baku:
https://streamable.com/mlyc
look at the speedo. Merc is in the league of their own on the amount of ERS they're able to deploy.

Sorry, I don't see how you're able to tell when they're deploying. Do you think Mercedes are deploying on every straight and for the entire straight? Andy Cowell's quote above suggests they have around 3 seconds of deployment available per lap.

You can tell when they are deploying because they can deploy ers just about everywhere on a circuit these days. The current formula allows for 4mj a lap which provides way more then 3-4 seconds a lap of electrical boost .

Thanks. Yes, this was established in later posts, but I still don't understand why Cowell was talking about deploying for seconds and even fractions of a second earlier this year.

[Vasconia]

Cannot say that on Vettel's current form. Vettel canes Kimi and Max canes Vettel !! Chances are that 3 of them crash each other out in the very first lap with the way things have progressed over the season.

Only hope is if Ferrari can secure the front row. Some magic fuel and extreme hot humid weather for Singapore. [-o<

Very hot temperatures could help Ferrari and damage Mercedes so lets hope for a super hot weekend. I still hope to see Sebastian on the first row, but the battle Mercedes-Red bulll-Ferrari will be epic!

Ferrari will be nowhere near Mercedes/Red Bull. The question is whether Mercedes can challenge the Bulls.

The 'on current form' comment is hilarious!

So you take it RB´s superiority for granted. Well, I expect them to be very strong too but I think Mercedes has learnt something from last season. Ferrari is the X in this equation, they should be strong but who knows...

[f1316]

Ferrari have seemed stronger in recent races in terms of understanding and setting up their package, so presuming this continues I'd suggest they'll be close to RB this weekend (Mercedes are the X factor, but I expect them to be out front, just a bit less so than normal).

Two things lead me to believe this:

- It gets lost in the mix that Vettel showed good pace in FP3 and Q1 at Monaco; his times went backwards so I'm convinced it was a question of losing the tyre operating window - as Ferrari themselves say - rather than others just turning up

- Singapore was a relatively strong track in *both* of the last two years - not just 2015. Vettel had a massive margin for pole last year but don't forget Kimi also topped Q2 in 2014 and Alonso was running with the Bulls. It's a track where they've been closer to the pace than the races on either side so it seems to reward (or less severely punish) their car's design philosophy

[Shooty81]

Sorry, I don't see how you're able to tell when they're deploying. Do you think Mercedes are deploying on every straight and for the entire straight? Andy Cowell's quote above suggests they have around 3 seconds of deployment available per lap.

You can tell when they are deploying because they can deploy ers just about everywhere on a circuit these days. The current formula allows for 4mj a lap which provides way more then 3-4 seconds a lap of electrical boost .

Thanks. Yes, this was established in later posts, but I still don't understand why Cowell was talking about deploying for seconds and even fractions of a second earlier this year.

Maybe he is talking about the "open wastegate" mode wher the mgu-h powers the compressor.

[Juzh]

You can tell when they are deploying because they can deploy ers just about everywhere on a circuit these days. The current formula allows for 4mj a lap which provides way more then 3-4 seconds a lap of electrical boost .

Thanks. Yes, this was established in later posts, but I still don't understand why Cowell was talking about deploying for seconds and even fractions of a second earlier this year.

Maybe he is talking about the "open wastegate" mode wher the mgu-h powers the compressor.

Or as I said, if the straight is 3s full throttle, in that case they'd deploy for 2s, or if it is 1s they'd deploy for 0.2.s.

[Shrieker]

Who will be standing here on Sunday night?

I wanted to say me, and then remembered I'm not an F1 driver lol

[carisi2k]

Thanks. Yes, this was established in later posts, but I still don't understand why Cowell was talking about deploying for seconds and even fractions of a second earlier this year.

Maybe he is talking about the "open wastegate" mode wher the mgu-h powers the compressor.

Or as I said, if the straight is 3s full throttle, in that case they'd deploy for 2s, or if it is 1s they'd deploy for 0.2.s.

It's all controlled by the electronics. While there is still a button to push to provide additional electrical charge in an emergency. The ecu is programmed to release the energy over a lap at the most opportune times.

At Monza this is crucial if you have to use ERS more often because your motor is down a little bit on power. In Singapore this will not be anywhere near as critical and it will come down to how this new Mercedes Active like hydraulic suspension works.

[SR71]

Maybe he is talking about the "open wastegate" mode wher the mgu-h powers the compressor.

Or as I said, if the straight is 3s full throttle, in that case they'd deploy for 2s, or if it is 1s they'd deploy for 0.2.s.

It's all controlled by the electronics. While there is still a button to push to provide additional electrical charge in an emergency. The ecu is programmed to release the energy over a lap at the most opportune times.

At Monza this is crucial if you have to use ERS more often because your motor is down a little bit on power. In Singapore this will not be anywhere near as critical and it will come down to how this new Mercedes Active like hydraulic suspension works.

I highly doubt Mercs suspension is "new" it's just new to the rest of the world.

There have been rumors of merc having an illegal suspension for some time now (see banning FRIC as the first step to uncover the truth).

No team dominates like this without a little mischief. Kudos to them if they get away with it.

[atanatizante]

I mean just look at this difference between ferrari and merc in baku:
https://streamable.com/mlyc
look at the speedo. Merc is in the league of their own on the amount of ERS they're able to deploy.

Sorry, I don't see how you're able to tell when they're deploying. Do you think Mercedes are deploying on every straight and for the entire straight? Andy Cowell's quote above suggests they have around 3 seconds of deployment available per lap.

You can tell when they are deploying because they can deploy ers just about everywhere on a circuit these days. The current formula allows for 4mj a lap which provides way more then 3-4 seconds a lap of electrical boost .

Common guys how many time should we talk about this : they have 33,3 sec for releasing through MGU-K the max. output (160HP) over a lap and UNLIMITED power for UNLIMITED time via MGU-H ...
So nowadays every PU can sustain via ERS those 160HP for 33,3 sec over a lap, but the differentiate between them is the MGU-H power output and the amount of time is deployed ... that`s the main weapon on Merc PU armor both in Qualy and the race ... and that`s way they have had those earlier in the year issues with Lewis`s MGU-H ...
And Andy Cowel was talking about the max. output which is deployed for 1s or 0,2 s ...

[henry]

Sorry, I don't see how you're able to tell when they're deploying. Do you think Mercedes are deploying on every straight and for the entire straight? Andy Cowell's quote above suggests they have around 3 seconds of deployment available per lap.

You can tell when they are deploying because they can deploy ers just about everywhere on a circuit these days. The current formula allows for 4mj a lap which provides way more then 3-4 seconds a lap of electrical boost .

Common guys how many time should we talk about this : they have 33,3 sec for releasing through MGU-K the max. output (160HP) over a lap and UNLIMITED power for UNLIMITED time via MGU-H ...
So nowadays every PU can sustain via ERS those 160HP for 33,3 sec over a lap, but the differentiate between them is the MGU-H power output and the amount of time is deployed ... that`s the main weapon on Merc PU armor both in Qualy and the race ... and that`s way they have had those earlier in the year issues with Lewis`s MGU-H ...
And Andy Cowel was talking about the max. output which is deployed for 1s or 0,2 s ...

I think we have to be very careful in our terminology when we discuss this topic.

The MGU-H is part of the Energy Recovery System and not separate from it. Energy is recovered by it and from the brakes via the MGU-K and deployed either directly or indirectly, via the Energy store.

The output of the MGU-H is not unlimited it is unregulated or unrestricted. The limit comes from the energy going into the turbine and the efficiency with which it can be harvested and deployed. This is the same as the crankshaft power of the ICE which is unregulated, but definitely not unlimited.

My personal preference when considering deployment is to subtract the max output of the MGU-H from the regulated power of the MGU-K and then use that and the time at max throttle to calculate the Energy Store capacity required for 100% deployment.

Let's say 60 kW, 120 kW and 60 seconds ( simple numbers as an example). (120-60) X 60 = 3.6 MJ.

We can then look at sources for that 3.6 MJ.

MGU-K: Braking,typically 1-2 MJ, or driving against ICE in part power sections of the circuit. ( maximum 2 MJ per lap)

ERS-H: Feed ES in part power sections (perhaps use in conjunction with driving against ICE), or feed ES in preference to MGU-K at the end of straights ( come times referred to as clipping) ( no upper limit)

I think, but don't know, that when Andy Cowell talks of short time periods he is describing switching between these modes, and probably others I haven't thought of, to get the best lap time out of the least energy.