Closed Cockpits agreed for 2017

[Jolle]

Whats the point of the polycarbonate? Debris? Stones? Gritt? What's the advantage of a halo like aero screen with obscured sight and higher costs?

To me the current Halo is designed wrong, it should have 2 supports on either side of the cockpit instead of a center support.

The aeroscreen structure is the right structure for the Halo

Hence the aeroscreen without the polycarbonate is a halo, with the polycarbonate and a roof is a canopy

The halo to the aeroscreen is not a very high cost, has a lot more advantages than just the halo

Why two pillars and why does a ½ inch screen improve safety?

- a central support is not in your important line of sight (because we have stereo vision)and free sight at the apex is much more important (when you'll loose some of the stereo vision because of your nose)
- a screen as a distance always obstruct the view, especially when it's needed the most (in rain for instance). Motorcyclist for instance lower their screen to look over it when it rains. Again, this is not a (big) problem on the helmet visor because of our stereo vision.

The only real reason for screens and canopies I read here are in the line of estetics then safety. Having to implement extra features like air hoses into helmets and doors goes beyond the point of any good safety measure: simplicity.

[FW17]

Why two pillars and why does a ½ inch screen improve safety?

- a central support is not in your important line of sight (because we have stereo vision)and free sight at the apex is much more important (when you'll loose some of the stereo vision because of your nose)
- a screen as a distance always obstruct the view, especially when it's needed the most (in rain for instance). Motorcyclist for instance lower their screen to look over it when it rains. Again, this is not a (big) problem on the helmet visor because of our stereo vision.

The only real reason for screens and canopies I read here are in the line of estetics then safety. Having to implement extra features like air hoses into helmets and doors goes beyond the point of any good safety measure: simplicity.

A center pillar is not a problem. It is the gusset which is the problem. It is so large that it distracts the main field of vision.

Having the pillars in the side is not a problem, the driver since 1996 is not able to see the apex. LMP 1 has a much larger pillar and the drivers are not bothered by it.

[Jolle]

Why two pillars and why does a ½ inch screen improve safety?

- a central support is not in your important line of sight (because we have stereo vision)and free sight at the apex is much more important (when you'll loose some of the stereo vision because of your nose)
- a screen as a distance always obstruct the view, especially when it's needed the most (in rain for instance). Motorcyclist for instance lower their screen to look over it when it rains. Again, this is not a (big) problem on the helmet visor because of our stereo vision.

The only real reason for screens and canopies I read here are in the line of estetics then safety. Having to implement extra features like air hoses into helmets and doors goes beyond the point of any good safety measure: simplicity.

A center pillar is not a problem. It is the gusset which is the problem. It is so large that it distracts the main field of vision.

Having the pillars in the side is not a problem, the driver since 1996 is not able to see the apex. LMP 1 has a much larger pillar and the drivers are not bothered by it.

If look at halo2 and the field that the driver can see out of his helmet, I think he can't even see the halo. And not able to see the apex since '96? You mean the headrests next to the drivers head where they don't look at? Or?

Just scroll a bit back, there is a nice video of Hulk driving and they show where they look at.

[Gerhardsa]

LMP cars have doors, which are used to get in and out of the car. It goes without saying that it doubles as an escape route for the occupant in case of an accident.

F1 cars do not have doors and will never be redesigned to have doors

Any reason or just your hope?

LMP cars have doors exactly because they use closed cockpits, if F1 goes to closed cockpits, they will use doors, period.

Don't get me wrong. I have absolutely no problem with a aero screen or canopy. Im all for it.
I just think that F1 or the FIA will not alter the cars in such a drastic way as to have doors to cockpits or totally closed cockpits because of the additional structural changes that would have to be implemented to the cars in terms of getting in and out... At least not any time soon.
The Halo is a hideous thing, I agree, but you kind of understand why they play around with that concept, as it wont affect the cars overall look and designs in such a massive way as appose to a fully fledged canopy.

I like the RB screen, but apparently with front and side on impacts the helmet hits the frame of the thing, which can lead to injuries the device is actually supposed to protect the driver from.

Im just saying... you gotta keep in mind, that we are dealing with the FIA here, so making F1 cars with doors, or canopies will not happen easily. They will try and stay with the current F1 car design philosophies as far as possible. Suddenly introducing doors and such, well, I don't see it happening.

[FW17]

Why two pillars and why does a ½ inch screen improve safety?

- a central support is not in your important line of sight (because we have stereo vision)and free sight at the apex is much more important (when you'll loose some of the stereo vision because of your nose)
- a screen as a distance always obstruct the view, especially when it's needed the most (in rain for instance). Motorcyclist for instance lower their screen to look over it when it rains. Again, this is not a (big) problem on the helmet visor because of our stereo vision.

The only real reason for screens and canopies I read here are in the line of estetics then safety. Having to implement extra features like air hoses into helmets and doors goes beyond the point of any good safety measure: simplicity.

A center pillar is not a problem. It is the gusset which is the problem. It is so large that it distracts the main field of vision.

Having the pillars in the side is not a problem, the driver since 1996 is not able to see the apex. LMP 1 has a much larger pillar and the drivers are not bothered by it.

If look at halo2 and the field that the driver can see out of his helmet, I think he can't even see the halo. And not able to see the apex since '96? You mean the headrests next to the drivers head where they don't look at? Or?

Just scroll a bit back, there is a nice video of Hulk driving and they show where they look at.

pre 96 is nothing compared to what Nico has

anyway

some prefer this


others prefer this

[Jolle]

A center pillar is not a problem. It is the gusset which is the problem. It is so large that it distracts the main field of vision.

Having the pillars in the side is not a problem, the driver since 1996 is not able to see the apex. LMP 1 has a much larger pillar and the drivers are not bothered by it.

If look at halo2 and the field that the driver can see out of his helmet, I think he can't even see the halo. And not able to see the apex since '96? You mean the headrests next to the drivers head where they don't look at? Or?

Just scroll a bit back, there is a nice video of Hulk driving and they show where they look at.

pre 96 is nothing compared to what Nico has

anyway

some prefer this
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/nmfND9Ugxyc/hqdefault.jpg

others prefer this
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/3HjN6poyO3o/maxresdefault.jpg

Nico? computer screens?

You're just babbling on trying to make a point without any thoughts behind them?

a large screen with the same picture as a small screen is nicer indeed.

[Andres125sx]

LMP cars have doors, which are used to get in and out of the car. It goes without saying that it doubles as an escape route for the occupant in case of an accident.

F1 cars do not have doors and will never be redesigned to have doors

Any reason or just your hope?

LMP cars have doors exactly because they use closed cockpits, if F1 goes to closed cockpits, they will use doors, period.

I think one of the most dangerous moments of close cockpit (GT etc) racing is when cabin fills with smoke and drivers even try to escape still moving cars or even opens doors and undo seatbelts.

A driver jumping out of a car on track during a race is very dangerous and must be avoided as much as possible.

True. Easily solvable tough, simply stablish a min cooling for the cockpit

[mrluke]

If the fia mandated safety tests and let the teams come up with solutions I think we would see a lot of fully enclosed cockpits and doors

[Jolle]

If the fia mandated safety tests and let the teams come up with solutions I think we would see a lot of fully enclosed cockpits and doors

A larger cross section, difficult construction, extra systems like air and cooling wider chassis plus 30-50kg extra weight vs relative small crosssection, slim chassis and ridged construction and no extra features needed.

[rjsa]

I see they playing with this aberration and I can only think "The Truman Show". Soon Truman will get close enough to poke a hole thru the soundstage wall and all will be over. Then I'll just look at the TV, say nah, and get on with life.

[mclaren111]

My first posting on this subject.

Question: Why not combine the design with the mirrors (which already sticks out like a sore thumb) and try for a more pleasing looking solution ??

[Andres125sx]

If the fia mandated safety tests and let the teams come up with solutions I think we would see a lot of fully enclosed cockpits and doors

A larger cross section, difficult construction, extra systems like air and cooling wider chassis plus 30-50kg extra weight vs relative small crosssection, slim chassis and ridged construction and no extra features needed.

Difficult construction? What would it have more difficult than a current safety cell, or over-complicated front wings?

Extra systems like air cooling? A hole in the cockpit and a tube to direct airflow to the driver does not look like a complicated system for a F1 team.

30-50kg extra? Not even a quarter of that I´d say

What about benefits? It would reduce drag, a very noticeable reduction, and it would also improve or clean airflow over the rear wing, so all the problems you mentioned, even if real, would be nuts compared to the aero benefit


If teams would be allowed to chose, they´d chose closed cockpits even if they do not add any safety benefit.

[n_anirudh]

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/exclu ... ed-826735/



Like the idea where the driver's head is enclosed from the sides with the head covered. I think this could be a first step of enclosing the driver without tampering much with the aesthetics of the car

[djos]

That's actually pretty cool!

[Manoah2u]

useless, a wheel still is able to enter the area and impact the driver's head. also, how to exit in case of a flip? the door function really has zero use, the driver is able to enter like that just as easy.

i like that there are 'out of th ebox' thinking going on, but there is not a single convincing solution out there to be honest.