This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
Seems like merc have already put Rosberg in front of Hamilton, clearly visible in the image above
No but seriously:
Malaysia: comfortably leading and not pushing + rosberg scrappy race: kaboummmm
Suzuka: Rosberg leading, hamilton messy race but pushing: the thing doesn't break
Something is up, the fact that Lewis has been so 'strange' in this press conference confirms to me that he knows something isn't right. He's damaging even merc's image without hesitating and they simply let him: http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/ ... _Mercedes/
- Oh yes, Mercedes "team" thread. What is 'up' is that Rosberg is better this season. BTW, where will Mercedes use team orders in his favour? Only four races left, they need to hurry. You wouldn't want team's preferential treatment for Hamilton one-sidedly deciding anything.
- As for reliability, bad luck, bad decisions I suggest using bigger sample than two races, don't forget to include (limiting to this season) Spain, Canada, Monaco, Singapore, Germany, Great Britain etc. . Plus performance - to have a full picture.
- speaking of sample you used wrongly and dishonesty, hard to compare: losing ~6 positions on his own by Hamilton in Japan to collision Vettel caused in Malaysia. I didn't notice 10 s penalty for nothing in Japan either. If you are surprised that something breaks or doesn't work:
Russia '15 - pedal malfunction while leading win and 25 points lost
Singapore '14 - servicing substance contamination 18 or 25 points
Italy '15 - new engine failure
Great Britain '14 - lost win, gear box failure while leading
Italy '15 - old engine (no chance for a win) and pushing it, failure
Hungary '15 - bad tyres prepared, highly possible win and at worst second place 25 or 18 points lost compared to 8th, Hamilton would have been 7th - count the points yourself
Austria '16 - suspension failure, gearbox 5 places grid penalty
Monaco '16 - 10 s Red Bull pitstop which alone (and only in connection with team-orders, leaving other factors aside) gave Hamilton undeserved 7 points advantage over Rosberg. 7 points from Spain crash= 14.
Ferrari seized control at the start, but a mid-race stoppage after a huge accident involving Fernando Alonso turned the race on its head, helping Mercedes’ Nico Rosberg to what had looked an unlikely victory. Team mate Lewis Hamilton recovered from a nightmare start to finish second, while Sebastian Vettel – who led into Turn 1 and looked very much in charge prior to the red flags – had to settle for third after 57 laps of Albert Park.
Bahrain Grand Prix
Nico Rosberg was fortunate insofar as his major rivals were hampered, Hamilton and Raikkonen by poor-ish starts, Vettel by pre-race engine failure. But once again Rosberg demonstrated his cool-headed ability to control a race when he’s out front. Whenever Raikkonen pushed, he responded, keeping clear of the red threat to score his second consecutive win of 2016, and his fifth in a row since Mexico last year. Two races in, and he has a 17-point lead over his reigning champion team mate…
Mercedes’ clutch problem hurt the polesitter for the second race in a row. Rosberg got it right, keeping the best clutch materials within their narrow operating window. Hamilton nearly did but not quite, and that ‘not quite’ proved crucial as fast-starting Bottas was thus close enough when he got his braking wrong for Turn 1 that he clattered into the Mercedes. Hamilton was lucky insofar as he was able to continue, but Toto Wolff estimated that floor and bargeboard damage cost the world champion up to a second a lap.
China Grand Prix
Lewis will start the Chinese Grand Prix at the back of the grid after he failed to set a qualifying time in Q1 due to mechanical problem 5 place grid penalty for gearbox change.
There was drama aplenty in Sunday’s 2016 Formula Chinese Grand Prix, but Mercedes’ Nico Rosberg kept it all behind him to secure his sixth successive F1 victory, winning comfortably from Ferrari’s Sebastian Vettel and Red Bull’s Daniil
Hamilton lost his front wing after contact with Felipe Nasr as the Sauber driver tried to avoid the melee. Lewis Hamilton, who started last for Mercedes after his qualifying woes, came through a battling afternoon which featured five pit stops to finish seventh, just ahead of the Toro Rossos of Max Verstappen.
Russian Grand Prix
Nico Rosberg dominated Sunday’s 2016 Formula 1 Russian Grand Prix after a Sochi race in which his main rivals struck trouble. Team mate Lewis Hamilton fought his way up from 10th on the grid to secure a Mercedes one-two, as Ferrari’s Kimi Raikkonen completed the podium.
It was Rosberg’s fourth win of the season and his seventh in succession, and gives him a 43-point lead in the driver standings. Hamilton, meanwhile, believed he had the pace to win, but yet again saw his challenge compromised as falling water pressure obliged him to back off after he had reduced a 12.9s deficit to 7.5s between laps 23 and 36.
Catalunya Grand Prix
At the start, Nico Rosberg got around the outside of Hamilton in turn one, while Räikkönen lost positions due to a slow getaway. Sebastian Vettel got past Verstappen, but was immediately repassed on the approach to turn four. At the front of the race, coming out of turn three, Hamilton tried to retake the position from Rosberg. As the latter defended his position, Hamilton went off the track and spun and they collided at turn 4, ending the race of both Mercedes drivers.
Monaco Grand Prix
When Mercedes let Nico Rosberg stumble round holding up Lewis Hamilton as Daniel Ricciardo headed for the champagne, it seemed that Mercedes hadn’t learned much since their infamous pit stop blunder last year. In all probability, this was a race that Red Bull and the Australian had covered, and the Silver Arrows were playing into their hands.
But once they’d told Nico to move over, their strategy in keeping Hamilton out on wets until it was dry enough for slicks paid off handsomely.
Canada Grand Prix
With championship leader Nico Rosberg only able to manage fifth after first-corner contact with team mate Hamilton and a late-race puncture, the gap between the Mercedes men at the top of the table is now down to just nine points.
Baku Grand Prix
In qualifying Lewis Hamilton locked his brakes on the approach to turn 7, damaging his race tyres. Hamilton narrowly avoided elimination in Q2. In Q3 Rosberg surpassed Pérez's lap time to claim provisional pole while Hamilton crashed out, clipping the barrier on the inside of turn 10 and breaking his front suspension.
Lewis Hamilton was given permission to change his front left tyre ahead of the race.
Still, in a car suited to the rigours of this remarkable track, good things should have been possible on Sunday afternoon. But his F1 W07 Hybrid began the race in the wrong mode, and as that impinged increasingly on its performance, his frustration mounted as radio restrictions meant he was unable to obtain sufficient guidance from his engineer as to how to fix the problem.
Rosberg had something similar, but it occurred as soon as he had switched to the mode; for him it was simplicity itself to switch straight back to the previous setting. But Hamilton had been wrestling with the problem so long that he had no idea which of the myriad permutations to reselect. A Mercedes insider likened it to one driver having clues with which to solve the crossword, and the other having none. Eventually, Hamilton, says, the problem solved itself. But by then he was stranded in fifth, and after setting what was at the time the race’s fastest lap (later beaten by Rosberg), he settled in and saved his engine, knowing he had run out of time to move forward.
Having got the deficit to Rosberg down to just nine points from 43 after two fine wins, he left Baku 24 points adrift.
Austrian Grand Prix
Lewis Hamilton won Sunday’s Grand Prix in Spielberg in dramatic fashion after passing Mercedes team mate Nico Rosberg for the lead on the very last lap. The pair made contact in the move, leaving Rosberg to trail home fourth, as Red Bull’s Max Verstappen and Ferrari’s Kimi Raikkonen completed the podium.
After a stewards' investigation, Rosberg - whose brake-by-wire system went into passive mode on the penultimate lap - was handed a 10-second penalty for causing a collision, but kept fourth place. He also recieved a reprimand for failing to stop with a seriously damaged car.
Silverstone Grand Prix
Hamilton controlled from the front, Rosberg and Verstappen were locked in battle for much off the afternoon, both men pulling off superb passes on the other. Barely a second separated them at the flag, as Rosberg held on despite late transmission issues which required him to avoid using seventh gear.Nico Rosberg finished second on the road, but a post-race penalty - issued as a result of Mercedes providing the German with illegal instructions - dropped him to third behind Red Bull's Max Verstappen.
Hungarian Grand Prix
Hamilton got the jump on polesitter Rosberg at the start, and from there only lost P1 during pit stops.
Hockenheim Grand Prix
Lewis Hamilton extended his championship lead to 19 points heading into the summer break with a dominant victory in Germany, as team mate Nico Rosberg was beaten into fourth place by the Red Bulls of Daniel Ricciardo and Max Verstappen. Mercedes messes up Nico's timed penalty at the last Pitstop costing him roughly 10 seconds.
Belgium Grand Prix
Nico Rosberg won this Grand Prix, with Daniel Ricciardo and Lewis Hamilton, second and third respectively. Hamilton received a multi-grid penalty before the start of the race. Hamilton retained the championship lead, with Rosberg closing the gap to nine points. Hamilton. Hamilton started from the back of the grid but profited largely from the lap 9 safety car period.
Monza Grand Prix
A poor getaway scuppered Lewis Hamilton’s chances of winning Sunday’s Formula 1 Italian Grand Prix 2016 and left the way clear for an untouchable Nico Rosberg to take victory - and with it cut his title deficit to his Mercedes team mate to just two points.
Singapore Grand Prix
Hamilton hampered when he lost practice time due to a hydraulic problem on Friday. It never came together and he not only lacked race pace but struggled with brake wear and frustration at strategy calls throughout the long fight for third. Both Mercedes had been on the limit of their brakes throughout the race and Rosberg said he was managing his right up until the flag was waved. He did so to perfection, as he had to in virtually every aspect of a weekend that leaves his rival almost reeling.
Malaysian Grand Prix
At the first corner Rosberg was T-boned by Vettel. Vettel was handed a three-place grid penalty for Suzuka next weekend.
From there Rosberg drove well to claw back ground, decisive where in the past he has been cautious. Until he came across Kimi Raikkonen on lap 38.
Rosberg saw a gap on the inside of turn two and dove for it. Only a bit of bumper cars ensured they both got round. The stewards gave Rosberg a 10-second penalty, but it proved meaningless as he finished 13 seconds clear of Raikkonen in fourth.
Out front, Hamilton was in control. Red Bull put Verstappen on an alternative strategy but the reigning champion had it covered.
Twenty seconds behind the Mercedes, the Red Bulls dueled like their lives depended on it. They ran alongside each other for several corners, Ricciardo just keeping his nose in front.
But a battle for second soon become a fight for the lead. On lap 41, approaching turn one, flames came from Hamilton’s exhaust.
Japan Grand Prix
Yet again, Rosberg proved untouchable. He beat Hamilton to pole by 0.013s, got the drop at the start and thereafter controlled the pace throughout, conserving his engine and his tyres and never looking remotely threatened.
In the process he increased his world championship points advantage over his team mate from 23 to 33, meaning he can now afford to finish second to Hamilton in all of the remaining four races and still clinch a first world championship crown...
If ever there was a race that Hamilton really needed to win it was this one. Instead, by his own admission he fluffed another start with too much wheel spin, plunged from second to eighth, and consigned himself to another afternoon of damage limitation. It is the fifth time this year that he has lost places from the start.
He recovered strongly, but in some ways that only compounded the sense of a missed opportunity - at one stage 20 seconds behind Rosberg, he closed that to six at the flag, hinting at what might have been. Instead he finished third, surrendering another 10 points to his title rival.
The biggest problem I can conclude from this season is Hamilton's starts. Yes he's had bad luck but that is out of your control. You can say Rosberg has had it easy without having Hamilton hounding him at every race but you can't deny he has maximized every opportunity. This season isn't over yet and Nico might receive his share of the bad luck. If Hamilton can't ace his starts.... Nico will win the championship like it or not.
Nico just needs to take the same approach he took to the tail end of 2015 and all of this year and reliability withstanding we will have a new world champion.
RedNEO wrote:Nico just needs to take the same approach he took to the tail end of 2015 and all of this year and reliability withstanding we will have a new world champion.
Hmmm...I do not thonk it is really in his hands. If he drives a clean rest of the season, he will be WC. He can even suvive 2 bad starts with only P3s at the end.
If his new engine blows like Ham's on the other hand, he will not be WC due to the penalty.
RedNEO wrote:Nico just needs to take the same approach he took to the tail end of 2015 and all of this year and reliability withstanding we will have a new world champion.
Hmmm...I do not thonk it is really in his hands. If he drives a clean rest of the season, he will be WC. He can even suvive 2 bad starts with only P3s at the end.
If his new engine blows like Ham's on the other hand, he will not be WC due to the penalty.
If something bad happens to him he's still got a chance due to the points gap. What he needs to do is focus on winning atleast 2 of the remaining four races and podium finishes in the rest. It's not going to be easy but hopefully he's car can survive.
RedNEO wrote:Nico just needs to take the same approach he took to the tail end of 2015 and all of this year and reliability withstanding we will have a new world champion.
Hmmm...I do not thonk it is really in his hands. If he drives a clean rest of the season, he will be WC. He can even suvive 2 bad starts with only P3s at the end.
If his new engine blows like Ham's on the other hand, he will not be WC due to the penalty.
If something bad happens to him he's still got a chance due to the points gap. What he needs to do is focus on winning atleast 2 of the remaining four races and podium finishes in the rest. It's not going to be easy but hopefully he's car can survive.
I do not think so. Engine blow during the race and next race +10 means at least 35 points. Then he needs to win the rest.
basti313 wrote:
I do not think so. Engine blow during the race and next race +10 means at least 35 points. Then he needs to win the rest.
It does depend when he gets the blow. If he does during free practice or qualifying, he might only end with up loosing 10-20 points. Hamilton already proved in Spa it's possible to end up on the podium.
I don't think it'll be as likely that either driver will get a mechanical failure. New measures have been put in place to minimize the chance of it. If I had to cross one particular race for a higher chance, it'd be Mexico where cooling is critical due low ambient air density. But don't count on it.
... I was just thinking about they'd minimize chance on failures. In my eyes, the only way to do so structurally is by changing specification. But both would get a penalty for that. Since the WCC is in the bag anyway, why don't give them a new engine each race, let them start from the back and see which one cuts the fastest through the field? Wishful thinking of course, but that'd be quite awesome.
basti313 wrote:
Hmmm...I do not thonk it is really in his hands. If he drives a clean rest of the season, he will be WC. He can even suvive 2 bad starts with only P3s at the end.
If his new engine blows like Ham's on the other hand, he will not be WC due to the penalty.
If something bad happens to him he's still got a chance due to the points gap. What he needs to do is focus on winning atleast 2 of the remaining four races and podium finishes in the rest. It's not going to be easy but hopefully he's car can survive.
I do not think so. Engine blow during the race and next race +10 means at least 35 points. Then he needs to win the rest.
Err that's called still having a chance. You must be getting Nico confused with Lewis
It's fate that Rosberg will end up behind 2 cars in one of these races. We need an interesting end battle to settle it. Let's see if the hunger for the first is stronger than the thirst for the third.
godlameroso wrote:It's fate that Rosberg will end up behind 2 cars in one of these races. We need an interesting end battle to settle it. Let's see if the hunger for the first is stronger than the thirst for the third.
Maybe if it ended in Brazil but the glowing hotel building is about the only interesting thing happening in Abu Dhabi
The main reason I think this whole "who had more bad luck" is that this season is been lacking the head to heads of the previous two.
Apart from Austria (and Spain more or less) they both have been driving their own races and both have maximized their races (apart from Baku and Monaco).
So, this year, so far, the only real difference has been the reliability of the ICE, clutch and MGU-H.
