2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

[TzeiTzei]

What a strange performance. I had sort of got used to expecting McLaren to be fighting for points.

[fellowhoodlums]

I think the whole team were surprised by the performance in Japan. Honda updates and penalties in Malaysia were all about getting good points in Japan for the Honda home GP. They would not have done all that if they knew qualification would be so poor, couldn't have gotten much worse really.

They know a lot more than we do obviously so we are all just speculating.

[mclaren111]

Yep !! All round bad day at the office this weekend !!

Weak Rear Suspension with poor driveability just did not work this weekend

[tom101]

They need high top speed. To overtake, or at least not to be overtaked easily.

That requires a rear wing with low drag.

And low drag in suzuka means worse lap times and high temperature in rear tires

Alonso said this weekend its a same they can not change the wing for race (use difrent wing for qualy and race I supose.)

[diffuser]

Actually it was about keeping it stiff where required so it could be run softer the rest of the time for mechanical grip/tyre life and kerb running.

I think we're saying the same thing in different ways.

It was mainly about using hydraulics to balancing the front/back and side/side and minimize the time the car spent outside the ideal aero angle. When you turn left, the car has a tendency to lean right, the suspension would compensate and keep the car level. It did the same thing under braking (with the front) and curbes. As a result you could run a softer suspension cause FRIC would stiffen it in places when needed. You'd also maintain a predictable down force.

[PlatinumZealot]

macca has two understeer loving drivers so the rear of the car is setup soft compared to the front. The front is stiff to minimize roll and yaw on entry.. Stable. Not pointy. Disadvantage is you can't run a strong front downforce setup. You have to do it on the rear. And when you do it on the rear it is harder to get without increase the drag a tonne because the rear of the car is after the air has lost a lot of energy.
Anyways.. What i am saying is the drivers require special setup which does not work with a weaker engine. Someone like the drift king tsuchia or Lewis would go faster and have better tyre heating in the same car because they can ride a setup that has more DF on the front which is less draggier to get that on the rear.

So it is a mix of weaker engine and the setup.

[PlatinumZealot]

Suzuka is all about being smooth and losing zero speed in fast and mid speed corners.So a great chassis(keeping it level to the ground at all times) and PU drivability(still must have great ICE power and great HERS at the sametime, KERS not as important at this track) is a must here.

Mclaren chassis doesn't keep level all the time and eats rear tires so sucks on mid to fast corners.Honda PU is behind everybody on drivability.

So gow do you explain this?

[godlameroso]

Simple, the body rolls to increase ground effect, but it does it in a predictable manner. Perhaps for reasons you stated the Mclaren chassis simply can't do the same.

[godlameroso]

Where have Haas been all season? Them being in q3 with both cars shows how representative of form this track is. Last year Williams outqualified Ferrari and redbull at this track. This track throws up odd results now and again. Everyone up in arms for one bad showing. The last few races have shown us where McLaren are. Last year they were in the same positions in japan, yet looking mighty racy in Austin. Let's hope the same thing happens this year, just without the over optimism and pessimism

Every time McLaren do bad 'we told you so!! Chassis is real bad!! Engine is even worse!!!'

Every time they do good 'chassis is the fastest!!!! Engine is improving!!!'

Truth is, engine is some way behind Renault. Chassis is at best 4th fastest, at worst 6th fastest with tyre issues which make it even slower

Unlike what most say Suzuka is a very much Power circuit. This is why Ferrari is in front RB and this is why Haas is infront of Mclaren(that doesnt justify Mclaren chassis problem).

Anyway here is how Mclaren compares to the Merc.

https://twitter.com/G3OF1/status/784776617239478273

It looks like the Mclaren gets destroyed under braking for turn 1 and the exit of turn 2 as the car runs wide, the Mclaren is very competitive through the esses but loses a big chunk of time going up the Dunlop curve, loses a little in Degner 1 and a fair bit in Degner 2. Alonso actually makes up a bit of time in the hairpin, but loses that and then some through spoon, and again under braking for Casio triangle, and a little more on exit despite the better line Alonso took.

[techman]

I think reality is setting in. This mclaren chassis is an average chassis. very inefficient aero and nothing special. All the BS Eric.B is talking is to save his job, well it will be exposed next year, when the FIA monitors the power index of these engine and let is out. There will be no hiding behind honda next year like they did this year. Havent you realised mclaren honda does well ahead of STR in power circuit but struggles in ciruits like suzuka and monaco for pace? i am pretty sure mexico and brazil where it consist of long straights the mclaren will be ahead of STR. mclaren chassis lack efficient aero nor downforce. just like redbull and renault f1 team, both using same engine but redbull has better straight line speed and downforce, which renault f1 lacks. the gap between those two team is over 1.5 seconds, just by pure aero superiority. Cant wait till next year when eric b will be exposed for the lies he tells everybody, the sooner he gets fired and the better for mclaren. no wonder ron blocked honda from supplying redbull and TR. if they had supplied them, those Teams would destroyed mclaren in terms of pace with the same honda engine.

[zac510]

Suzuka is all about being smooth and losing zero speed in fast and mid speed corners.So a great chassis(keeping it level to the ground at all times) and PU drivability(still must have great ICE power and great HERS at the sametime, KERS not as important at this track) is a must here.

Mclaren chassis doesn't keep level all the time and eats rear tires so sucks on mid to fast corners.Honda PU is behind everybody on drivability.

So gow do you explain this?

That looks like exceptionally low tyre pressure - perhaps an outlap? Awesome photo. (I'm not disagreeing with the primary point of your post, just wondering whether this photo is not from a typical race stint scenario).

[Pany]

Wow, what a pic

Suzuka is all about being smooth and losing zero speed in fast and mid speed corners.So a great chassis(keeping it level to the ground at all times) and PU drivability(still must have great ICE power and great HERS at the sametime, KERS not as important at this track) is a must here.

Mclaren chassis doesn't keep level all the time and eats rear tires so sucks on mid to fast corners.Honda PU is behind everybody on drivability.

So gow do you explain this?

http://i.imgur.com/JGHtasS.jpg

[Pany]

Yessss, Eric. B is a Pig. He is the first that must go home! also McLaren engineers need to work harder. This Tema is MCLAREN, not Toro rosso or FI

I think reality is setting in. This mclaren chassis is an average chassis. very inefficient aero and nothing special. All the BS Eric.B is talking is to save his job, well it will be exposed next year, when the FIA monitors the power index of these engine and let is out. There will be no hiding behind honda next year like they did this year. Havent you realised mclaren honda does well ahead of STR in power circuit but struggles in ciruits like suzuka and monaco for pace? i am pretty sure mexico and brazil where it consist of long straights the mclaren will be ahead of STR. mclaren chassis lack efficient aero nor downforce. just like redbull and renault f1 team, both using same engine but redbull has better straight line speed and downforce, which renault f1 lacks. the gap between those two team is over 1.5 seconds, just by pure aero superiority. Cant wait till next year when eric b will be exposed for the lies he tells everybody, the sooner he gets fired and the better for mclaren. no wonder ron blocked honda from supplying redbull and TR. if they had supplied them, those Teams would destroyed mclaren in terms of pace with the same honda engine.

[GoranF1]

I will tell you guys something.
I know Boulier sometimes says wrong things...but as Alonso fan you can rest assured he knows his job way better than the likes of Domenicali and Mattiaci.

[GoranF1]

Where have Haas been all season? Them being in q3 with both cars shows how representative of form this track is. Last year Williams outqualified Ferrari and redbull at this track. This track throws up odd results now and again. Everyone up in arms for one bad showing. The last few races have shown us where McLaren are. Last year they were in the same positions in japan, yet looking mighty racy in Austin. Let's hope the same thing happens this year, just without the over optimism and pessimism

Every time McLaren do bad 'we told you so!! Chassis is real bad!! Engine is even worse!!!'

Every time they do good 'chassis is the fastest!!!! Engine is improving!!!'

Truth is, engine is some way behind Renault. Chassis is at best 4th fastest, at worst 6th fastest with tyre issues which make it even slower

Unlike what most say Suzuka is a very much Power circuit. This is why Ferrari is in front RB and this is why Haas is infront of Mclaren(that doesnt justify Mclaren chassis problem).

Anyway here is how Mclaren compares to the Merc.

https://twitter.com/G3OF1/status/784776617239478273

It looks like the Mclaren gets destroyed under braking for turn 1 and the exit of turn 2 as the car runs wide, the Mclaren is very competitive through the esses but loses a big chunk of time going up the Dunlop curve, loses a little in Degner 1 and a fair bit in Degner 2. Alonso actually makes up a bit of time in the hairpin, but loses that and then some through spoon, and again under braking for Casio triangle, and a little more on exit despite the better line Alonso took.

Sounds like problem whit suspension...every time car rides curves on medium speed corners.
So maybe not so bad chassis, especialy the aerodynamic part of it has 1 fundamental problem? The suspension.
Maybe this is why Mclaren were questioning Mercedes suspension so much whit the FIA?