2016 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, 07-09 October

[zac510]

Kimi did 27 on Hards ( http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2016/10/09/2 ... pit-stops/ ).
I'm just not convinced strategy is to blame (in case you hadn't noticed!) It's like they can't keep heat in the tyres when the fuel burns off and the car gets light so the last strategy move always looks bad.

[sosic2121]

Kimi did 27 on Hards ( http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2016/10/09/2 ... pit-stops/ ).
I'm just not convinced strategy is to blame (in case you hadn't noticed!) It's like they can't keep heat in the tyres when the fuel burns off and the car gets light so the last strategy move always looks bad.

No, I don't agree with you. I believe Kimi was just saving the engine.
Many times during the season Ferrari had better pace at the end of the stints compared with RB.

[PlatinumZealot]

One may argue that Lewis got 'screwed over double' by the change of engineers at the start of the season - still a tad odd - and his 'odd' amount of breakdowns, he went fairly
emotional when he needed to keep calm and focused. I do believe he went into this year 'overconfident' and thought he'd bag this one like it was nothing, and 'partied' too much
alongside it. the focus and performance he unleashed in Malaysia was absolutely stellar and imho, showed the real Lewis Hamilton, and what he really is able to do. It obviously
was a ginormeous blow to see that engine go up in flames, but it makes me wonder WHY on earth Lewis hasn't engaged in this absolute focus for many more races, and again,
especially japan where he was the total opposite of Malaysia. He had the crowd on his hand in Malaysia, was 'energized' , focused, highly professional in every interview and briefing,
was unreal in Qually and was on it in the race.

I think critisizing Lewis for this weekend is fully in it's place, seeing as his material was absolutely open for his hands to do something to make a difference.

I said it before and i still say it - whether reasonable or not - if Lewis doesn't bag this WDC, he's going to concider going to another team in the really short distance.

Still not ruling out Alonso to Mercedes and Lewis to Ferrari, and then Kimi being put aside and Button stepping back into the Mclaren.

I dont agree with this. Not sure how you manage to construe that lewis is making a mess of his racing. You must be reading too much garbage from the media. Or maybe you have on your "hatershades" lol

From my side of things... I jumped straight to the race. Didn't watch practice, didnt watch qually, didn't read any articles or anything.. Just straight to the formation lap and race. Other than a faulty start, which Toto concedes was not entirely down to the driver, i would say Lewis drove a clinical race.

He was measured when he needed to be and aggressive when needed. His inlaps and outlaps were expertly pulled off. Not to mention his overtakes on slower cars. Anyone who knows f1 well knows that overtakes on equally fast cars in the dry with these aero regs are pretty much impossible at suzuka without a huge tyre advantage. Verstppen was the only fast car HAM had to overtake on track and obviously it was not going to happen unless max made a mistake. He didn't.

Hamilton did what he coud with the clutch he was given. It's not that a three time worl champion cannot operate a clutch... The clutch itself is pretty random. Even rosbergs start wasn't great.

For all we know the clutch softwar could be programmed against Hamilton iust like his engines was programmed to detonate in Malaysia. Yes.. I believe!

[Fulcrum]

Other than a faulty start, which Toto concedes was not entirely down to the driver

Source?

This is the comment I have found from Toto thus far.

Looking back at today's race, so much was decided at the start. Nico got a perfect start, while Lewis suffered on the right-hand side with the damp line but also got a bad getaway. We know that our clutch is tricky to manage and we have not given the drivers the easiest system to use this year. Our first indications suggest that the clutch release was the problem today - but we will look into all the data before reaching a definitive conclusion.

So it's not entirely the driver's fault, but it also isn't 100% the car. Ergo, the driver is partially responsible.

[Fulcrum]

As Vasconia says, Ferrari once again nullified all the effort their drivers put into the car. In case anybody still doubted Alonso's move, he did not do wrong in leaving Ferrari. time will tell if he'll get somewhere with Mclaren, but Ferrari is still nowhere. Not because the car is bad, but because the team makes a mess of it. They've got a supremely experienced WDC in the car, and a 4-time-in-a-row WDC with a fresher motivation, but it's still bringing them nowhere due to a) still not a direct Merc competitor and b) that would not do anything when their team can't do any correct strategy. It's not only in the race, they regularly put their drivers out in traffic during qually too. And i'm surpised at how much they have to change gearboxes, engines, etc. just as well.
Arrivabene's fire and energy of last year, especially with the win, has vanished completely in a worried schoolboy that is heading to exams unprepared and foreseeing bad grades and the paired doom of facing the parents - Marchionne - though i don't think it would do Ferrari any good to ditch Arrivabene and replace him with another - seemingly - incompetent figure, whilst the problem imho doesnt seem to be with ferrari's leadership, rather the way their personnel functions.

As for Lewis, it definately speaks for him that he's still in the competition despite all the amazing 'bullets' fired at him - from their own team at that.
Rosberg has maintained calm and stable throughout the season, with some occasional 'delibarete' moves that are questionable. I don't think he was as 'sneaky' as in 2014, and i think he rather canned or contained/put a lid on his emotions compared to last season - he was visibly riled up last year - and it plays him dividends. He came out superbly strong in the final stages of teh 2015 season, and he seems to repeat that now.

Again, apart from the fact Lewis had a huge amount of misfortune that obviously went in Nico's favor, he's done his side very well and has the WDC coming his way as such.
One may argue that Lewis got 'screwed over double' by the change of engineers at the start of the season - still a tad odd - and his 'odd' amount of breakdowns, he went fairly
emotional when he needed to keep calm and focused. I do believe he went into this year 'overconfident' and thought he'd bag this one like it was nothing, and 'partied' too much
alongside it. the focus and performance he unleashed in Malaysia was absolutely stellar and imho, showed the real Lewis Hamilton, and what he really is able to do. It obviously
was a ginormeous blow to see that engine go up in flames, but it makes me wonder WHY on earth Lewis hasn't engaged in this absolute focus for many more races, and again,
especially japan where he was the total opposite of Malaysia. He had the crowd on his hand in Malaysia, was 'energized' , focused, highly professional in every interview and briefing,
was unreal in Qually and was on it in the race.

I think critisizing Lewis for this weekend is fully in it's place, seeing as his material was absolutely open for his hands to do something to make a difference.

I said it before and i still say it - whether reasonable or not - if Lewis doesn't bag this WDC, he's going to concider going to another team in the really short distance.

Still not ruling out Alonso to Mercedes and Lewis to Ferrari, and then Kimi being put aside and Button stepping back into the Mclaren.

If we're going to go full tinfoil hat here, how about Vettel to Mercedes in a straight swap?

Far less contractual wrangling and, considering the comments from Arrivabene concerning Vettel having to "earn his place", not without some basis. Kimi is a perfect number 2 in the sense that he won't be ruffled when beaten, he's cheaper, and he is the only current driver to have won a Championship in a Ferrari - that's meaningful to Ferrari.

Vettel is German, and I'm sure Mercedes could see the appeal of an all-German line-up, especially if both drivers happen to be World Champions. It's a bit nationalistic, but it is a viable option. Vettel also has a greater potential lifespan as a driver than Alonso, sad to say.

[Vasconia]

Other than a faulty start, which Toto concedes was not entirely down to the driver

Source?

This is the comment I have found from Toto thus far.

Looking back at today's race, so much was decided at the start. Nico got a perfect start, while Lewis suffered on the right-hand side with the damp line but also got a bad getaway. We know that our clutch is tricky to manage and we have not given the drivers the easiest system to use this year. Our first indications suggest that the clutch release was the problem today - but we will look into all the data before reaching a definitive conclusion.

So it's not entirely the driver's fault, but it also isn't 100% the car. Ergo, the driver is partially responsible.

Basically the conclusion is, that the system is not easiest one to use. But one driver(Nico) is doing a better job than the other.

[marvin78]

Yeah. If the Tyres were off because of the strategy (choice of tyres is part of that), the performance gets worse.

[iotar__]

Other than a faulty start, which Toto concedes was not entirely down to the driver

Source?

This is the comment I have found from Toto thus far.

Looking back at today's race, so much was decided at the start. Nico got a perfect start, while Lewis suffered on the right-hand side with the damp line but also got a bad getaway. We know that our clutch is tricky to manage and we have not given the drivers the easiest system to use this year. Our first indications suggest that the clutch release was the problem today - but we will look into all the data before reaching a definitive conclusion.

So it's not entirely the driver's fault, but it also isn't 100% the car. Ergo, the driver is partially responsible.

Basically the conclusion is, that the system is not easiest one to use. But one driver(Nico) is doing a better job than the other.

it's even more simple:
- if it's Rosberg losing starts and wins (Hungary, Germany) there's nothing wrong with the car and it's all a driver, no one even mentions difficult clutch and all this long-winded BS
- if it's Hamilton having bad starts like in Italy or Japan it's a long list of BS, excuses, diluting, shifting. Often with changed versions, made up or delayed (Austria '15 it took two weeks). Same with ruined races and reliability. How funny that the driver knew he messed up and admitted it but later some doubts have to be invented.

- My favourite marketing mumbo - jumbo is "he did all the procedures as always". Yes like every F1 driver on the grid, and most drivers with bad starts, he just did it not as good as the others. For an internet person - all procedures right = car problem, not his fault
- Second favourite, we changed gloves - this is the world championship of nonsense but people are buying it

Meanwhile they're driving the same car with the same hardware, software and 'procedures' and are perfectly capable of good starts.

Edit: I'm surprised I didn't hear those kind of discussions in Abu Dhabi '14 when Rosberg had !both! bad start (or rather faulty clutch or wrong gloves) and engine failure. He dominated qualifying (~0,4) on top of that. Now if we reverse the situation which should be the fairest way of looking at things - it's Rosberg that is the world champion two years ago and I bet no one would even mention 'bad luck' .

[Fulcrum]

Who knows. Maybe Hamilton has a clause in his contract stating Mercedes can never directly criticise him? I'd certainly believe that theory before believing the 'deliberate sabotage' theory that wafts into the threads every so often from disgruntled fanboys.

[proteus]

I personally would punish Lewis for not driving normally on the track. U have no right to just drive on the escape road just because u want to. He had enough braking space and space to turn into the corner. Yes he would lose more time, but no matter what, track limits should be considered at every time as much as u can. He didnt put any effort into making that corner. And that is not acceptable for me. Aparently drivers became much too comfortable with cutting corners wherever they like doing it no matter what reason they have. Back in the day when F1 racing was still respected, bounderies were in place on corners where cutting could occur. But in modern time they drive all over the place and people even being happy for it, because they would be angry if the driver they are rooting for would retire from the race when making a mistake, or driving off the track....

This is an example of how ridiculous bias fanboyism and hate can get.
What kind of punishment do you have in mind? 5 seconds? 10? 100?

He already lost over a second by having to avoid Max's breaking swerve (not to mention a bit of tire blockage, so much for your theory of not trying). You do not penalize racers for losing time. You penalize them for driving outside track limits and gaining an advantage. Either in time or position. Your statement is so ludicrous (and the fact that another forum member kinda agreed with you) it is beyond redemption.
Putting astroturf or asphalt in more places instead of gravel is the best thing F1 has done. It helped with safety (less accidents or lighter impacts) and helped racing (and show) by allowing pilots to go closer to the edge (100%) without fearing that a single mistake will be disastrous. WIN-WIN

For stricter track limits you can always watch Monaco if you like that snooze-fest. (worst GP all year)
Though even that one has a runoff after the tunnel and the main straight...

Hahaha..."tarmac is the best thing that F1 has ever done"..."It helped racing and allowing the pilots to go to the edge" - This my friend is the joke of the decade. What tarmac did, was making drivers no longer respect the driving areas of the track. It has made whole championships more boring due to the fact that all of the drivers which have top cars are pardoned for making their mistakes and robbing smaller teams of possible points or even podiums. This year allready we were robbed of good show due to the tarmac runoff areas. Especially Silverstone was the case where drivers just freely drove out of the track on the runoff areas and lost nothing, even though they made a huge mistake which would previously caused them to lose a couple tens of seconds, maybe a front wing, or even retire from the race cause getting stuck in the gravel.

Tarmac, DRS, Pirrelli tyres, grid penalties, time penalties and soon introduced Halo are the things that are destroying the sport. Audiences and fans are in all time low, so are the sponsors.

[AMG.Tzan]

Source?

This is the comment I have found from Toto thus far.



So it's not entirely the driver's fault, but it also isn't 100% the car. Ergo, the driver is partially responsible.

Basically the conclusion is, that the system is not easiest one to use. But one driver(Nico) is doing a better job than the other.

it's even more simple:
- if it's Rosberg losing starts and wins (Hungary, Germany) there's nothing wrong with the car and it's all a driver, no one even mentions difficult clutch and all this long-winded BS
- if it's Hamilton having bad starts like in Italy or Japan it's a long list of BS, excuses, diluting, shifting. Often with changed versions, made up or delayed (Austria '15 it took two weeks). Same with ruined races and reliability. How funny that the driver knew he messed up and admitted it but later some doubts have to be invented.

- My favourite marketing mumbo - jumbo is "he did all the procedures as always". Yes like every F1 driver on the grid, and most drivers with bad starts, he just did it not as good as the others. For an internet person - all procedures right = car problem, not his fault
- Second favourite, we changed gloves - this is the world championship of nonsense but people are buying it

Meanwhile they're driving the same car with the same hardware, software and 'procedures' and are perfectly capable of good starts.

Edit: I'm surprised I didn't hear those kind of discussions in Abu Dhabi '14 when Rosberg had !both! bad start (or rather faulty clutch or wrong gloves) and engine failure. He dominated qualifying (~0,4) on top of that. Now if we reverse the situation which should be the fairest way of looking at things - it's Rosberg that is the world champion two years ago and I bet no one would even mention 'bad luck' .

Haahahahahah...man your fanboyism of Rosberg doesn't go any further! In every single thread i look that has to do with Mercedes you state over and over again the failures Rosberg had in 2014 and 2015 (and it seems that you only see Rosberg's season because you never include Hamilton's broken engines and other team faults...anyway both 14 and 15 were pretty even and straight in terms of reliability and racing) and how much he deserved the championship!! And you don't seem to accept (and not only you but so many people out there) that it is Rosberg's luck and other's bad luck that has put him in such a good position! Saying that Rosberg has done a brilliant job when Lewis has his problems is so silly since Mercedes is by far the fastest car in there and Rosberg is not a Maldonando! After all he is a very good driver being able to keep up with Hamilton, Vettel, Alonso. And if you only consider the first 4 races, everyone had a problem except Rosberg:
-Australia:Hamilton bad start, Ferrari wrong strategy, Rosberg free tire change under red flag
-Bahrain:Hamilton hit by Bottas, Vettel blown on the parade lap, Raikkonen nowhere
-China:Hamilton blown engine starts last...hit in the first corner, Ferraris take each other out, Ricciardo blown tire after leading 3 laps
-Russia:Hamilton egnine problem starts 10th...water pressure problem stops him from chasing Rosberg down, Ferraris and Red Bull out in first corner
Then midway through the season Rosberg is nowhere when it rains like Monaco and Silverstone...no problems for Hamilton at last...43 points deficit turns into 19 points lead. And no bad luck for Rosberg except for Germany's start where he recovered quickly! And it seems he forgot how to turn in both Austria and Germany
-Spa:Hamilton starts last, Ferraris and Redbulls come together at the first corner...no one to challenge Rosberg again
-Singapore:Nice drive from Rosberg here, Hamilton had FP2 problems though that costed him a little pace
-Malaysia:Some bad luck seems to hit him at the first corner but in the end all the bad luck turned to Hamilton on a weekend he was dominant
So from the above weekends i can't actually see how Rosberg has been brilliant this year! Pretty much everything has been served to him on a plate! In contrast both in 14 and 15 we saw so many on track battles between the two and if you look at the races Hamilton passed Rosberg so many times in a race:
-2014:Bahrain,Canada(before DNF), Hungary, Belgium, Italy, Japan, USA
-2015:Japan, USA and generally Hamilton quicker in both Quali and Race
-2016:Monaco(with team help but much quicker), Austria, Hungary (with equal starts)
So pretty much my argument here is that this year is not straightforward for the time being! Rosberg has had so many clean weekends and the drivers around him have had, especially in the first part of the season, so many problems!
So it's ok to state that Hamilton fans forget Rosberg's bad luck in 14 and 15, but it's also ok to look at the circumstances under whom Rosberg lost (14,15) or led (16) the championship, to get a clear view of what's going on!

[Andres125sx]

Lewis definately making a mess of this weekend all by himself. Should have jumped back on as hard as he could, instead all i seen all weekend was a absolute mess. I don't know where his head's at, but it's not where it should be. The press conference games were an odd thing to see the weekend start with but in the end a clear signal he's not doing what he should - focusing completely on winning and surpassing himself. I don't know what that start was about but it was a real real mess. Atleast he admitted it was a screwup, but well, he lost the race - and a more decent chance at the WDC - by that mess. I feel like it started with the 'test start' from the pitlane. he was taking a lot of time and though he got away fairly well, it all seemed messy to me - or should i say, not flowing well. Lewis, if you lose this WDC, you did it yourself with this weekend mate. Tech issues are out of your own league, but this was a model weekend to do all you could to still grab it.

Agree, this sort of mistakes can, and probably will cost him the title.

This year, the starts seem to be quite a lottery, at least in one of those Mercedes. We know Hamilton can ace starts - he has done so more often than not last year and the year before already, yet this year, he seems to have problems with it that are not solely driver related.

Not sure about if there´s some pattern, but in this case, Suzuka poor start was 100% Lewis fault. De la Rosa pointed out he didn´t put the engine at the correct rpm for the start, his wheel didn´t show any led lit up. They (spanish tv) then showed his and Nico start togheter and Nico obviously put the engine at the rpm it must be for the start, with two red leds lit up, while Lewis wheel has all leds off. Rookie mistake sincerely, not what you´d expect from a 3 times WDC fighting for the 4th title

[iotar__]

...long post above

A. Why don't you take your 'fanboysim' attacks and stick it in the mirror.
B. Look I tried to read the whole post, I really did but this is not even funny and a waste of time:

- "2015:Japan, USA and generally Hamilton quicker in both Quali and Race"

I mean people make mistakes, I do too but it's 3/4 wrong:
1 Suzuka 1:32.584 Lewis Hamilton 1:32.660 "generally quicker in both Quali and Race"
2. Nico Rosberg 1:56.824 Lewis Hamilton 1:56.929 "generally quicker in both Quali and Race"
3. USA race - it was Rosberg overtaking on track and quicker by ~10 s before SC erased this advantage "generally quicker in both Quali and Race"

- "this year! Pretty much everything has been served to him on a plate!

Complete and utter nonsense. Have you watched: Monaco (team orders), Baku (dominant win on merit), Suzuka (dominant win on merit), Austria (quicker, strategy/tyres, reliability, penalty), Canada, Suzuka (dominant win on merit), Italy (win on merit), Singapore (dominant win on merit), Australia, Germany, Hungary: poles but bad starts (not clutch whining), Malaysia (nothing on a plate), Spain (another highly probable/~certain win on merit ruined)?

That's 13 races, how is that pretty much everything on a plate? Add penalties bad stops and all that can and should be exchanged for points. I gave already 3x times examples of Monaco/Spain vs Malaysia and Austria vs Spa. You can do the same with Russia, China but only related to grid not driving, use GB and gear box points lost as a comparison. Bahrain was bad start and as much bad luck as Rosberg had in Malaysia. That would be all the races .

As for stupid starts. Don't you think that a driver can make a slightly delayed but normal start much worse? Don't you think that pressure, competition and previous bad start affects them. There's also a difference between losing one place and 5. Australia is a good example, Rosberg had a bad start, Hamilton worse but lost more positions after bad first corner approach.

[Sevach]

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/massa ... ts-837808/

In this article Massa talks about starts and what's going on(also his Japanese GP if you are interested).
Explains stuff in simple terms.

[strad]

Add in a lack of feel as in a traditional clutch pedal and you have a very delicate situation.