2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

[Vasconia]

I will tell you guys something.
I know Boulier sometimes says wrong things...but as Alonso fan you can rest assured he knows his job way better than the likes of Domenicali and Mattiaci.

Man this is not a fair comparison. You have mentioned the worst ones.

[PABLOEING]

McLaren needs to James Allison the next year........with Prodromou would be a dream team.

[Alonso Fan]

I was waiting for techman to milk this one.

[ALO_Power]

I think reality is setting in. This mclaren chassis is an average chassis. very inefficient aero and nothing special. All the BS Eric.B is talking is to save his job, well it will be exposed next year, when the FIA monitors the power index of these engine and let is out. There will be no hiding behind honda next year like they did this year. Havent you realised mclaren honda does well ahead of STR in power circuit but struggles in ciruits like suzuka and monaco for pace? i am pretty sure mexico and brazil where it consist of long straights the mclaren will be ahead of STR. mclaren chassis lack efficient aero nor downforce. just like redbull and renault f1 team, both using same engine but redbull has better straight line speed and downforce, which renault f1 lacks. the gap between those two team is over 1.5 seconds, just by pure aero superiority. Cant wait till next year when eric b will be exposed for the lies he tells everybody, the sooner he gets fired and the better for mclaren. no wonder ron blocked honda from supplying redbull and TR. if they had supplied them, those Teams would destroyed mclaren in terms of pace with the same honda engine.

Pure overreaction as always from you and misleading comments. Where have you been all this time that McLaren was getting good results? Not good to appear when you are not getting confirmed, uh? Now, you found an opportunity again to say that the chassis is trash again after 1 bad race. Just looking for an opportunity to bash them every time. And explain me this, why Haas then was in Q3 and in front of STR, Williams and others? Why Renault almost outqualified McLaren (if Palmer hadn't met yellow flags he would be in front). You trying to say that Haas and Renault have better chassis than McLaren? Point is, after catastrophic 2015 (that even McLaren had LIMITED track time for data thanks to engine problems and also adapting its new aero team) this is big progress. Suzuka problems are not because chassis is bad, it's combination of things, not black neither white. I don't support them on that because they DO have some problems but what you say is pure overreaction. Problem seems to be that in some circuits they can't get the tires working and it seems suspension related. Of course that's a weak point and they must fix it for next year, but you can't say that chassis is terrible, if you do you are just out of date and reality. In Suzuka, they were completely lost so in my opinion, what made them look so bad is these: suspension and engine. Suspension because they seem to struggle with making the tires work when in medium speed corners and when you need mechanical grip. Engine because Suzuka is more of a Power Track than a chassis track, as you can see all cars are all the time at high throttle and there are minimal braking points, where McLaren is really good at. So they can't get advantage of their strong braking (because there aren't much heavy braking zones, least than everywhere) and also can't regen much energy with that, so in that circuit ICE matters most, and ICE is Honda PU's weakest point (no TJI for example, which is something that 2015 Ferrari PU does have!). The ICE of Honda must not be as good as the 2015 Ferrari one (which again has TJI). But overall, 2016 Honda PU should be equal or a tad better than 2015 Ferrari PU (which is remarkable with no TJI used). Anyway, Suzuka seemed to be a track that highlighted all the problems of the car at once and on the other hand there weren't much stuff that they could make up time from their stronger territories. Anyway, it's good to learn the problems now and prepare a strong car for 2017 hopefully. Also, the fact that the chassis is a bit compromised thanks to the weak P.U (calculated to be 80-85hp off Merc), is also something but I'm not going to use it as an excuse but definitely they lose some time from there, too. And I don't think Boullier is a problem for McLaren, statements are always and were always full of politics to fulfill different goals, ignore them and see the car and overall progress.

[CjC]

Just to confirm, I read an article from Horner and he said that Suzuka was at the higher end for the spectrum for engine performance requirements

[techman]

And I don't think Boullier is a problem for McLaren, statements are always and were always full of politics to fulfill different goals, ignore them and see the car and overall progress.

Eric.B statement are jokes ,he is trying to save his job, we all heard the bs they said about monaco. it was pure luck and rain that helped them, the race pace and qual were horrible. The fact that even the TR bosses and drivers say the honda 2016 has more power than the 2015 ferrari was during mid season and since then they have brought regular updates and passed the 2015 pu power, and we all saw in circuits where there are plenty of straight the mclaren performed better than TR even with a inefficient chassis. Mclaren as usual always hiding behind honda and make excuse, even with a mercedes engine they struggle to be top team in 2013 &2014, i just hope people will open to their eyes to reality during 2017 when the power index is measure in all the engine and given out by FIA. Then there is not more hiding behind honda. Even then i pretty sure some mclaren fans will find a way to point the blame to honda. like i said not suprise ron block honda supplying a better chassis of TR and redbull.

can u say that mexico and brazil, which have long straights and power dependant, the TR will be better than mclaren.? i dont think TR can compete with mclaren because its a power circuit and like all power circuit the mclaren showed better performance than TR and i believe u could see a good result even with a average chassis like mclaren. in suzuka its mainly an aero circuit with lots of mid to high speed corner and mclaren performed bad, not a suprise to me, that mclaren chassis is average. TR infact did better than mclaren. simply because there chassis is more efficient.

[ALO_Power]

And I don't think Boullier is a problem for McLaren, statements are always and were always full of politics to fulfill different goals, ignore them and see the car and overall progress.

Eric.B statement are jokes ,he is trying to save his job, we all heard the bs they said about monaco. it was pure luck and rain that helped them, the race pace and qual were horrible. The fact that even the TR bosses and drivers say the honda 2016 has more power than the 2015 ferrari was during mid season and since then they have brought regular updates and passed the 2015 pu power, and we all saw in circuits where there are plenty of straight the mclaren performed better than TR even with a inefficient chassis. Mclaren as usual always hiding behind honda and make excuse, even with a mercedes engine they struggle to be top team in 2013 &2014, i just hope people will open to their eyes to reality during 2017 when the power index is measure in all the engine and given out by FIA. Then there is not more hiding behind honda. Even then i pretty sure some mclaren fans will find a way to point the blame to honda. like i said not suprise ron block honda supplying a better chassis of TR and redbull.

can u say that mexico and brazil, which have long straights and power dependant, the TR will be better than mclaren.? i dont think TR can compete with mclaren because its a power circuit and like all power circuit the mclaren showed better performance than TR and i believe u could see a good result even with a average chassis like mclaren. in suzuka its mainly an aero circuit with lots of mid to high speed corner and mclaren performed bad, not a suprise to me, that mclaren chassis is average. TR infact did better than mclaren. simply because there chassis is more efficient.

You still say the same general stuff you believe without caring to read my post, you just stuck with your "favorite" Boullier and read only that part of my post. The fact that from everything I told you kept the Boullier part, it's enough to prove what you wanna say here... You show your ignorance by giving 2013 and 2014 McLaren chassis as an example. 1) 2013 wasn't the Hybrid era 2) McLaren has a brand new aero/chassis department and generally it's like a new team. So you compare apples with potatoes. In Suzuka, Power matters MORE than chassis, this is easily proved and you could see it by checking some previous pages. You still can't answer why Haas was in front of Williams and why Renault almost outqualified McLaren. The only problem is the suspension and that they can't get the tires working some circuits (in suzuka they completely messed even with the setup). 2016 Honda PU is better overall than 2015 Ferrari one but the ICE of the Honda is definitely inferior. Get your facts straight. Monaco is a mechanical grip circuit, so problem? suspension! couldn't get the tires working again. What about Hungary? McLaren is really good at heavy braking and high-speed aero. They mess mostly with mechanical grip thanks to the suspension. Obviously tho, trying to change that now it's a waste of time, especially with new regulations coming and season ending. Honda is more or less 80hp down to all others (proven by GPS data), so you think that they can develop the chassis as they want? I believe that for the given situations they both did good job. The truth will be shown in 2017 onwards. We can't throw the fault to anyone, they're 1 team. If you believe that this year you should see podiums and stuff you're not living on earth. I wish Honda could have a better starting point in 2015 because that threw everyone behind, you forgot that last year they could hardly complete a race? You think that doesn't cost to both of them? But for the given situations they made strides this year. Both chassis and P.U are behind, throwing all the blame and with such a huge passion to McLaren just shows that you don't come here for the talks but just to bash them.

[diffuser]

I don't think Mexico or Brazil are power tracks. I'm not even sure why you're bring this backup. We're dead last in PU power, get over it.

I don't think McHonda's problems are as black and white as you're trying to make them. They were .3 behind STR in Sector one in Japan but were .2 faster (combined) in the last 2 sectors. So they clearly had issues in the esses. In the last 2 sectors they were what we've expected from them in the last few races, a little ahead of STR. I think there are going to be growing pains on the chassis, as you add more power you're gonna hit issues they hadn't seen before and need to find solutions for. Clearly they need to find a solution for what's going on in that first sector in Suzuka.

[diffuser]

That looks like he rear end went airborne after hitting the curb.

[techman]

Honda is more or less 80hp down to all others (proven by GPS data), so you think that they can develop the chassis as they want?

SAYS WHO? why r u speading bs. I know andrew benson said about 80 bhp down to mercedes he has no proof to it and he said he thinks its 80bhp down and thats at the start of the season , but its his opinion. what bs is this.. show me the facts dont spread rumours.the fact that you are believing the mclaren bs about their overated chasis shows you ignorance.

just watch and see mexico and brazil where it is considered to a power circuit, it will at least better than suzuka for mclaren.anyway cant wait till next year and this bs will stop and eric.b job is on the line.
mclaren could not even get there car to be good with a mercedes in 2013 and 2014 , i am not sure if they can make a good chassis in 2017 . but lets hope.

I don't think Mexico or Brazil are power tracks

did you have look at the track? its mainly dominated with long straights and engine power counts a lot. its not a monaco mate.

[mrluke]

My understanding is that one of Mclaren's biggest problem is that they run a very stiff setup with a very narrow "max downforce" window which makes it exceptionally sensitive to ride height.

The worst thing from all of this is that Mclaren continue to be surprised by their performance at each track, they struggle at tracks they think favour their car and perform really well when they expect it to be difficult. This just reinforces that they don't know / understand their own strengths and weaknesses which I would assume comes from poor correlation between their theoretical and their practical.

(bonus point for those that spot the 40k reference)

[ALO_Power]

Honda is more or less 80hp down to all others (proven by GPS data), so you think that they can develop the chassis as they want?

SAYS WHO? why r u speading bs. I know andrew benson said about 80 bhp down to mercedes he has no proof to it and he said he thinks its 80bhp down and thats at the start of the season , but its his opinion. what bs is this.. show me the facts dont spread rumours.the fact that you are believing the mclaren bs about their overated chasis shows you ignorance.

just watch and see mexico and brazil where it is considered to a power circuit, it will at least better than suzuka for mclaren.anyway cant wait till next year and this bs will stop and eric.b job is on the line.
mclaren could not even get there car to be good with a mercedes in 2013 and 2014 , i am not sure if they can make a good chassis in 2017 . but lets hope.

I don't think Mexico or Brazil are power tracks

did you have look at the track? its mainly dominated with long straights and engine power counts a lot. its not a monaco mate.

Wasn't you that before Monza you told that, "They will have great result in Monza and you will all see that problem is not Honda" , something like that. After Monza though, you disappeared. Get your facts straight, I'm starting to believe that you are here only to troll and "show off". You keep saying the same things you told from start of the season in any bad result of the team and in good results you are just hidden under a rock while you ignore the in-season development.

mclaren could not even get there car to be good with a mercedes in 2013 and 2014 , i am not sure if they can make a good chassis in 2017

Keep ignoring everything man. You still don't read our full posts, you just pick numbers and Boullier stuff. You seem to have no idea that McLaren had a massive restructure, especially in aero dept in 2015. We analyzed what was wrong in Suzuka. Now stop your rage. After the summer break and a bit before we all saw improvement, with regular Q3 and points in each race. In ALL of these races you don't need a chassis ???? What you gotta say for Monza then? And what you wanna prove when Honda ITSELF admits it ? In your logic Haas and Renault have better chassis than McLaren . Honestly, we're here to talk about the car and the team and not to be haters. And yes 2017 is gonna be the real judgement. And I laughed so hard when you named the next tracks, power tracks so you can still come here and not get hidden this time, and try to "confirm" your thoughts because you know that in next tracks they will do well as usual (in the last part). =D>
By the way, isn't this guy autof1fan? I forgot, if so, I just waste my time.

[Pierce89]

Honda is more or less 80hp down to all others (proven by GPS data), so you think that they can develop the chassis as they want?

SAYS WHO? why r u speading bs. I know andrew benson said about 80 bhp down to mercedes he has no proof to it and he said he thinks its 80bhp down and thats at the start of the season , but its his opinion. what bs is this.. show me the facts dont spread rumours.the fact that you are believing the mclaren bs about their overated chasis shows you ignorance.

just watch and see mexico and brazil where it is considered to a power circuit, it will at least better than suzuka for mclaren.anyway cant wait till next year and this bs will stop and eric.b job is on the line.
mclaren could not even get there car to be good with a mercedes in 2013 and 2014 , i am not sure if they can make a good chassis in 2017 . but lets hope.

I don't think Mexico or Brazil are power tracks

did you have look at the track? its mainly dominated with long straights and engine power counts a lot. its not a monaco mate.

If you look at a graph that shows power sensitivity, I'm quite sure you wont fail to notice that both the tracks you mentioned will fall below Suzuka. Suzuka and Silverstone to a lesser extent show a certain characteristic in that reducing DF to help with a power deficit on the multiple long flat out sections, you get murdered in numerous high speed turns. This is what makes both tracks more power sensitive than the 2 you mentioned. Mexico and Brazil both have a majority of much slower corners so reducing DF is a more viable option.

[techman]

if you consider suzuka to be more power circuit than mexico and brazil then i guess the F1 engineers got it wrong, you need to take over their jobs. just look at the average top speeds. of these two tracks. i guess you guys will next say monaco is more a power circuit than mexico and brazil and i will not be suprised there is not point debating as you have shown no understanding and knowledge of the track.

[SameSame]

if you consider suzuka to be more power circuit than mexico and brazil then i guess the F1 engineers got it wrong, you need to take over their jobs. just look at the average top speeds. of these two tracks. i guess you guys will next say monaco is more a power circuit than mexico and brazil and i will not be suprised there is not point debating as you have shown no understanding and knowledge of the track.

Not saying Suzuka is more power dependant than Brazil or Mexico, but looking at average speeds is a poor choice of judging power sensitivity. Both Brazil and Mexico City are at extremely high altitudes and thus much higher top speeds can be achieved. Added to that, a driver can be at full throttle while cornering, as in the case of 130R, and this scrubs speed off. Rather look at percentage of lap at full throttle for a better idea.