2016 Sauber F1 Team - Ferrari

[iotar__]

Sauber will run the 2016 Ferrari again in 2017, according to german auto-motor-und-sport.
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 65145.html

The article further hints that Sauber might become the first Honda costumer for 2018.

What do you think?

They make a rule you can't give old engines and they do it every year. Classic F1 logic =D> .

Surprising but if it's their choice costs/design/resources - whatever. The gave late development as a reason - 2 months behind, future was unknown at the time. I didnt think the engine can be that different after 3 three years: cooling, dimensions etc. but they say it might be.

- Just because they throw '18 Honda switch it doesn't have to be related. How would they force them do accept old engines anyway?
- More important: why would they change to Honda, cheaper, better support? Other answer: another closer relationship (Merc-Manor) and McL-H need it more than Ferrari (Haas).

[Sniffit]

Considering that engine development will be completely unrestricted next year this seems like an utterly retarded decision. Their main compeditor already has a stronger power-unit and has beaten them in the manufacturers championship, being stuck with a legacy engine will just ensure status quo.

However I guess they could make it work, were they to start off with the 2016 PU, introduce a B-spec with provisions made for the then known 2017 specc PU. This is highly unlikely though.

[skoop]

I completely agree with you. I can't understand that decision as well.

[Sniffit]

It looks like Carlos Sainz jr agrees aswell.

Asked about Sauber's engine decision for 2017, Sainz said: "Well, I wish them good luck.

"Normally they're one step behind, and if they have a fixed engine for the rest of the year, they will end up being two steps behind.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/saube ... nz-837750/

[Raleigh]

I don't understand what Sauber is doing. They will probably be 11th this year, repeating that in 2017 would mean two years out of the top 10 and losing their column 1 prize money.

[Sniffit]

I think most of us are in agreement.. I understand that they have limited resources, not only monetary but also economically..
Thing is that Sauber have had a donkey of a car for years, this due to limited resources to develop decent areo, they have been forced to rely on their PU to save the day.
I can see the merit of going with a known entity [2016 PU] and focus resources on getting to grips with your weakness [areo], this comes with a huge how-ever though; can their knew owners afford a year or two of staying at the bottom while still keeping the development pace?
I am the first to admit that I am not an expert in how to run or build a team, however, from my armchair team boss pov using the 2016 PU as a benchmark to design a 2017 car is wise from a Sauber POV; as long as they are ready to adapt their design to a B spec as soon as Ferrari has nailed down the 2017 PU design and the cooling package has been figured out.

[Facts Only]

We dont actually know that this hasn't been foisted upon them do we?

Aren't STR returning to Renault engines next year, which leaves Sauber as the only Ferrari customer? How do we know that Ferrari haven't just dictated this to Sauber and told them to 'like it or lump it'

It wouldn't be the first time I have heard Ferrari treating small customer teams with this sort of attitude.

[skoop]

We dont actually know that this hasn't been foisted upon them do we?

Aren't STR returning to Renault engines next year, which leaves Sauber as the only Ferrari customer? How do we know that Ferrari haven't just dictated this to Sauber and told them to 'like it or lump it'

It wouldn't be the first time I have heard Ferrari treating small customer teams with this sort of attitude.

I don't think that this is what happened. In my opinion Ferrari would lose Saubers voice when it comes to voting (like where to test the tires).
The decision was purely based on budget and now it's too late/expensive to redesign the whole packaging concept. At least that's what I think.

[Manoah2u]

We dont actually know that this hasn't been foisted upon them do we?

Aren't STR returning to Renault engines next year, which leaves Sauber as the only Ferrari customer? How do we know that Ferrari haven't just dictated this to Sauber and told them to 'like it or lump it'

It wouldn't be the first time I have heard Ferrari treating small customer teams with this sort of attitude.

good morning and welcome to 2016. facts only: Haas also uses Ferrari engines.

[Facts Only]

Ha! I knew I was overlooking somthing here. Lots on my mind today. Note I did put a question mark because I couldn't work out what was nagging in my mind.

I still say that we dont know the full story here and from the 1st hand experiences that people have told me I wouldn't put it beyond the realms of Ferrari dictating this.

[turbof1]

There obviously would have to be a reason if that is going to be the case. I don't see Ferrari considering Sauber to be a threat to them. So you can scratch that.

Maybe it would have to do with production. I really know little of engine production lines, but perhaps there are parts of the line incompatible with next year's PU. If everybody gets the 2017 PU, that part would need to be scrapped and instead of a yearly incorporation accountancy wise of its costs, the full amount would need to be booked for a single year, which will way on profits in the books.

That'd be my guess. If Ferrari is behind this, and that is a big if since I'd rather believe Sauber is looking for a cheap solution, then you'd need to be looking at financial benefits for Ferrari.

[Facts Only]

I'm not saying they are behind it, just that it could be a possibilty.

In 2015 they supplied 2014 units to Manor, in 2016 they supplied 2015 units to STR in 2017 they will supply 2016 units to Sauber... Perhaps they have found a mid-late year production-lull where most of the current engines are complete and next years engines are still in design where they can bash out 10-12 of the current PU's for very little money/effort and the flog them at a tidy profit?

I suspect whats happened is they offered the previous Manor/STR deal to Sauber and they saw a way to save some money and keep Ferrari happy. Or Ferrari might have said "its that or nothing".

Who knows, nothing in F1 is ever clear-cut.

[bhall II]

I can't imagine Ferrari is thrilled about losing 1/3 of its real-world development data.

[PhillipM]

I thought there was a clause in the regs now that works teams had to be prepared to offer a same year engine if the customer asked for it anyway?

Besides, it's still because that money is going to be far better spent in the new aero and mechanical configuration in terms of laptime per £

[Vasconia]

I think most of us are in agreement.. I understand that they have limited resources, not only monetary but also economically..
Thing is that Sauber have had a donkey of a car for years, this due to limited resources to develop decent areo, they have been forced to rely on their PU to save the day.
I can see the merit of going with a known entity [2016 PU] and focus resources on getting to grips with your weakness [areo], this comes with a huge how-ever though; can their knew owners afford a year or two of staying at the bottom while still keeping the development pace?
I am the first to admit that I am not an expert in how to run or build a team, however, from my armchair team boss pov using the 2016 PU as a benchmark to design a 2017 car is wise from a Sauber POV; as long as they are ready to adapt their design to a B spec as soon as Ferrari has nailed down the 2017 PU design and the cooling package has been figured out.

Even though they focus on aero for 2017 they wil have problems. TR has a very good chasis this season but their performance has suffered a lot as the season has advanced. And I dont expect Sauber to build such a good chasis. .

Money is the only reason I can see, or perhaps they willl switch to another provider in 2018 and Ferrari doesnt want to give them an updated PU.