2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

[mclaren111]

Autosport:

Ferrari can't understand its loss of pace at #USGP compared to its strong showing in the last race at Suzuka

We are not the only ones battling

[ALO_Power]

I hope you realize what kind of potatoes you throw, right? Alonso a good qualifier and a bad race guy? Do you live on earth or somewhere else? Alonso is "THE BEST" in race trim. He was always known for that, his starts, his consistency, his attacks etc. He may not be "the quickest" in 1 lap but definitely in race trim. Exactly the opposite that you say. Few races ago Button started 9th and finished 9th while Alonso started last (22nd) and finished 7th. Pretty bad at race trim right? I haven't seen a race that Button got him in the race. (at least on pure merit)

ok lets just take last suzuka race, alonso started ahead was ahead after first lap over 10second to jenson and jenson started last however in the end jenson was only few seconds behind alonso, i am checking the race pace in F1.com for all races, and i find the race pace of jenson is much better than alonso. jenson is far consistent when it comes to producing good laptimes in race compared to alonso, this is not only one incident , there are many like them. alonso is lucky this season bad luck paid a key role in jenson points, just like in mlayasia, where the virtual safety destroyed his race position and race strategy.

ok let see what position they finished in austin, jenson starting low end of the grid and alonso higher, hopefully i will be chekcing the lap times and let find out. hopefully none of them have bad luck in the race

Honestly, you judge from Suzuka in which track the car wasn't competitive at all? In Monza it wasn't competitive as well and Alonso was so bored that he switched to option tire in last laps to set the fastest lap. Also, how you can compare 2 drivers from bare lap times? How you know in what kind of strategy / race craft / incidents / traffic they are in ? Let the results do the talking. Button is a legend for sure but Alonso is top notch. Generally, I notice that you always take 1 point of reference to justify stuff (ex. average speed to judge power hungry tracks) but it's 100% not the case in such a complex sport...

[ALO_Power]

Geez. There are two kinds of people out there. Folks like Goran above and the CEO of Honda Motorsport... and then there are the rest of us including the management of Mclaren.
Alonso has 2 (should only be one) WC. Not a small feat. Was he good? Sure. Is he the best now? That I don't agree with.

He was rumored to be a not very good chassis set up and development guy by Ferrari and the backdoor chatter from Mclaren is the same but that he is stuck there due to Honda saying "free PU's and we pay his salary".... kind of hard to beat that when you are still playing catch up chassis wise.
Alonso was a package deal with Honda.
Alonso has adeal in his contract that he can leave whenever he wants if thechassis does not have a WC potential.
Mclaren is hedging their bet that he will bounce pre contract or even if Honda wants him to stay once current contract is up.
That's why they kept Button in the works.

I don't have the energy to go find the articles showing these rumors. They mostly came out when Button announced his retirement plan

-Should only be one? Should be 5 , my friend.
-Not good at setups? A true joke.
- Commenting Ferrari? Let me remind you that Ferrari always was in that mediocre level but Alonso fought for the champ with that car and got countless wins and podiums for the Red Crew. Now Ferrari is still on same faith and where's Vettel? Also Raikkonen is beating Vettel lately and Raikkonen was easily beaten by Alonso in 2014 (in a completely handful car which definitely required skill).

Honestly, even if you are not Alonso fan, there's no doubt that he's one of the best (possibly the best on grid) and definitely in top 5 (or top 3 maybe) of all F1 drivers of any era. The only thing that's bad about Alonso is his luck. If he was often in a championship winning team then F1 probably would be a bit boring

[PhillipM]

mclaren is a inefficient chassis. no wonder it was bad in suzuka, this is what jenson said about this car.
Button said: "Mid-speed corners with no braking at all. That is really tough for us. It is the way the car doesn't perform in that region as well as others. "Heavy braking circuits, our car is fantastic, and we are probably the best at braking. When you have that heavy braking corner, the initial turn in is very strong and the car has a lot of downforce – that is probably more than I should be telling you.

Huh, I wonder why they'd be terrible at mid speed sweepers you accelerate through and prefer heavy braking circuits....oh wait, that would be because they have a great brake harvesting system (ever seen the McL's struggle when harvesting compared to the issues many have had? Nope) and good deployment, if you can't harvest, you can't deploy and if you can't deploy on a track where you're at full throttle for much of the lap....you end up being slow. And you can't turn the tyres on.

Put your tinfoil hat away.

[Andres125sx]

So I´m going to summarize Techman conclusions:

- McLaren chassis is trash
- Honda PU is one of the greats
- Alonso is a poor driver when it comes to race trim
- Alonso strong point is qualifying


What will be next?


I´d ask if he then thinks Ferrari 2010 and 2012 was a championship winning car, or what happened with Kimi who is same driver but looked finished when he drove next to Alonso, and look strong when driving next to Vettel, but I´m afraid about the reply I may get

[ME4ME]

I´d ask if he then thinks Ferrari 2010 and 2012 was a championship winning car, or what happened with Kimi who is same driver but looked finished when he drove next to Alonso, and look strong when driving next to Vettel, but I´m afraid about the reply I may get

Did you sleep all through 2015?

[techman]

So I´m going to summarize Techman conclusions:

- McLaren chassis is trash
- Honda PU is one of the greats
- Alonso is a poor driver when it comes to race trim
- Alonso strong point is qualifying

1. Mclaren chassis is average, and they are behind TR in terms of chassis efficiency and effiicent downforce, it was very clear again here in austin, even the TR speed traps was the lowest compared to mclaren they manage to get up to top 10. monaco and singapore they also show strong qualifying performance, no suprise there.

2. Honda PU is improving much better than old ferrari 2015 and close to reanults or equal, the only difference renault is powering the best chassis that the redbull with top notch drivers. look at renault f1 team, they even slower than mclaren. Chassis make a huge difference.

3. Alonso in race pace compared to jenson, is slower, but one thing alonso has is that he a better qualifier than jenson and probably have the best starts in F1. bad luck was the main reason jenson is down in points. last year jenson finnished ahead of him. Alonso is bit overrated, he is nowhere in terms of pace compared to hamilton, rosberg, max and ricccardo, all these drivers are much quicker. If i was ron, i would not try to sign overated alonslow, i would infact try to get adrian newey on board.

Honda made a mistake, they should have forced there way to supply redbull when they had to opportunity to supply redbull , ron block it, knowing very well in redbull honda would absolutely embarrass them on track.

[Andres125sx]

I´d ask if he then thinks Ferrari 2010 and 2012 was a championship winning car, or what happened with Kimi who is same driver but looked finished when he drove next to Alonso, and look strong when driving next to Vettel, but I´m afraid about the reply I may get

Did you sleep all through 2015?

No but, what do you mean?

[Dipesh1995]

So I´m going to summarize Techman conclusions:

- McLaren chassis is trash
- Honda PU is one of the greats
- Alonso is a poor driver when it comes to race trim
- Alonso strong point is qualifying

1. Mclaren chassis is average, and they are behind TR in terms of chassis efficiency and effiicent downforce, it was very clear again here in austin, even the TR speed traps was the lowest compared to mclaren they manage to get up to top 10. monaco and singapore they also show strong qualifying performance, no suprise there.

2. Honda PU is improving much better than old ferrari 2015 and close to reanults or equal, the only difference renault is powering the best chassis that the redbull with top notch drivers. look at renault f1 team, they even slower than mclaren. Chassis make a huge difference.

3. Alonso in race pace compared to jenson, is slower, but one thing alonso has is that he a better qualifier than jenson and probably have the best starts in F1. bad luck was the main reason jenson is down in points. last year jenson finnished ahead of him. Alonso is bit overrated, he is nowhere in terms of pace compared to hamilton, rosberg, max and ricccardo, all these drivers are much quicker. If i was ron, i would not try to sign overated alonslow, i would infact try to get adrian newey on board.

Honda made a mistake, they should have forced there way to supply redbull when they had to opportunity to supply redbull , ron block it, knowing very well in redbull honda would absolutely embarrass them on track.

This has surely got to be one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever seen.....

Point 1: The Toro Rosso chassis is seen as a chassis with a large amount of downforce coupled with a large amount of drag, so its not quite as efficient as you want us to believe. The McLaren chassis was designed from the get-go to be as aerodynamically efficient as possible because they knew they would be down on power throughout the entire season and therefore could not afford to have extra drag that Toro Rosso believed they could. Monaco and Singapore are both tracks that place a premium on mechanical grip rather than downforce.

Point 2: You seriously believe the Honda PU is "close or equal" to this year's Renault PU. LOL. You are seriously deluded if you truly believe that. The fact that Renault have already said the Honda PU is quite far behind and the fact that Honda have said their PU is quite far behind the Renault PU confirms the power difference between the Renault and Honda PUs. But hey, what do they know about their own power unit and competitor power units?

Point 3: The only person who thinks Alonso is overrated is you and that doesn't really count for much going by the gibberish you've posted. He is one of the best if not the best race driver on the current F1 grid. Period. The reason Jenson finished above Fernando last year at Austin is because Fernando had a PU issue.

[Andres125sx]

So I´m going to summarize Techman conclusions:

- McLaren chassis is trash
- Honda PU is one of the greats
- Alonso is a poor driver when it comes to race trim
- Alonso strong point is qualifying

1. Mclaren chassis is average, and they are behind TR in terms of chassis efficiency and effiicent downforce, it was very clear again here in austin, even the TR speed traps was the lowest compared to mclaren they manage to get up to top 10. monaco and singapore they also show strong qualifying performance, no suprise there.

2. Honda PU is improving much better than old ferrari 2015 and close to reanults or equal, the only difference renault is powering the best chassis that the redbull with top notch drivers. look at renault f1 team, they even slower than mclaren. Chassis make a huge difference.

3. Alonso in race pace compared to jenson, is slower, but one thing alonso has is that he a better qualifier than jenson and probably have the best starts in F1. bad luck was the main reason jenson is down in points. last year jenson finnished ahead of him. Alonso is bit overrated, he is nowhere in terms of pace compared to hamilton, rosberg, max and ricccardo, all these drivers are much quicker. If i was ron, i would not try to sign overated alonslow, i would infact try to get adrian newey on board.

Honda made a mistake, they should have forced there way to supply redbull when they had to opportunity to supply redbull , ron block it, knowing very well in redbull honda would absolutely embarrass them on track.

1- Didn´t you realize at this point speed traps are meaningless as they always depend on aero configuration? RBR proved that in their dominant period, but what is even more surprising is even here in COTA 16 the top teams in the speed trap are far from the top performing teams. Actually Mercedes is far from fastest team on speed traps. Does that mean Mercedes PU is slow but they´re the best because of the chassis alone?

2- Obviously Honda is improving much better than Ferrari 15, specially because Ferrari 15 PU does not improve at all as they don´t receive any update in the whole season . But you´re spot on, Honda is close to Renault, what means Honda is the slowest 2016 PU, wich means McHonda has a handicap compared to any other team but STR, and Sauber if you will. That´s quite far from your statements asserting McHonda perfomance is harmed by the chassis tough, if you agree every team in the grid except STR and Sauber have a better PU to McLaren, then it becomes obvious McHonda main problem is the PU, not the chassis, even if the chassis is only the fourth best, as there are at least 7-8 teams (Mercedes, RBR, Ferrari, FI, Williams, Renault, Haas, and even Manor) with a faster PU. 4th best chassis and 8th-9th best PU. What is the weak point Techman?

3- So it is Jenson who got bad luck . Check your facts Techman: 2015: Alonso retired on 8 GPs, Jenson on 6. Add to that first race when Alonso did not participate due to his crash in pre-season testing and you get 6vs9 in the comparison, 50% more races without the chance to score points. Now 2016, 6 vs 6 retirements, but now add Barhein when Vandoorme substituded Alonso after his crash in Australia. 6 vs 7. Basically in both seasons Jenson had the chance to score points in more GPs than Alonso, but you say it´s Jenson who was unlucky
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anexo:Res ... de_McLaren

4/last- Obviously RBR with Honda PU would beat McLaren, we all agree RBR has best chassis on the grid, don´t we? What are you trying to prove then? I guess you´re not trying to say RBR chassis is better than McLaren, that´s too obvious...

[ALO_Power]

So I´m going to summarize Techman conclusions:

- McLaren chassis is trash
- Honda PU is one of the greats
- Alonso is a poor driver when it comes to race trim
- Alonso strong point is qualifying

1. Mclaren chassis is average, and they are behind TR in terms of chassis efficiency and effiicent downforce, it was very clear again here in austin, even the TR speed traps was the lowest compared to mclaren they manage to get up to top 10. monaco and singapore they also show strong qualifying performance, no suprise there.

2. Honda PU is improving much better than old ferrari 2015 and close to reanults or equal, the only difference renault is powering the best chassis that the redbull with top notch drivers. look at renault f1 team, they even slower than mclaren. Chassis make a huge difference.

3. Alonso in race pace compared to jenson, is slower, but one thing alonso has is that he a better qualifier than jenson and probably have the best starts in F1. bad luck was the main reason jenson is down in points. last year jenson finnished ahead of him. Alonso is bit overrated, he is nowhere in terms of pace compared to hamilton, rosberg, max and ricccardo, all these drivers are much quicker. If i was ron, i would not try to sign overated alonslow, i would infact try to get adrian newey on board.

Honda made a mistake, they should have forced there way to supply redbull when they had to opportunity to supply redbull , ron block it, knowing very well in redbull honda would absolutely embarrass them on track.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

When andres125 posted his answer to you I was wondering what was next but you totally trashed it ! Anyway, thanks for humiliating yourself and making our job easy not to care for you at all.

Alonso slower than Rosberg!!!! I was laughing so hard on this! This guy checks who is in front and according to race classifications he judges the drivers. He's trying to talk technical stuff while he can't even tell the difference between drivers and cars.

Ok, no reason to talk with this troll anymore. And yes he is just a crap anti-Alonso troll. He posts only in McLaren topic and say sh@t because he prays god McLaren to be trash next year so he won't see him in front. haha

[PhillipM]

The best chassis on the grid is not RBR, much as they like to hype themselves up. It's that one up front in silver and green.

[ME4ME]

I´d ask if he then thinks Ferrari 2010 and 2012 was a championship winning car, or what happened with Kimi who is same driver but looked finished when he drove next to Alonso, and look strong when driving next to Vettel, but I´m afraid about the reply I may get

Did you sleep all through 2015?

No but, what do you mean?

I mean that Vettel beat Kimi almost to the extent that Alonso beat Kimi in 2014. Also I'd like to point out that driver form, as the word indicates, isn't static. I think generally Kimi is in better form this year. Vettel in worse form than last year. Alonso is probably in better form this year.

Back on topic: McLaren blames circuit layouts for drop in form
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mclar ... rm-841902/

What a heap of bull(ier)schit. I strongly dislike teams saying that the circuit doesn't suit their car. It's clearly the other way around, their car doesn't suit the circuit. The circuits are announced almost a year in advance. It's the teams job to make their car able to compete at every circuit, just like Mercedes has done.

Mclaren basically states that their car is absolutely great. A part from power-tracks. And high speed corner tracks. And the tracks where they can't get the tyres to work.

[Andres125sx]

The best chassis on the grid is not RBR, much as they like to hype themselves up. It's that one up front in silver and green.

So you think Renault and Mercedes PU are very close in perfomance?

Or how do you explain then RBR is the only team to fight Mercedes?

Mercedes PU is the best, I guess we all agree on that. If they have best chassis too, then I can´t see how RBR won those GPs. Ok it could be due to tire problems for example, but there´s a tendency too, RBR can fight Mercedes on tracks where power is not that relevant. In my eyes that means they have a better chassis wich can make up the PU difference on tracks wich are not power sensitive.

But I´d be glad to hear your opinion, even if it´s OT

[Andres125sx]

Did you sleep all through 2015?

No but, what do you mean?

I mean that Vettel beat Kimi almost to the extent that Alonso beat Kimi in 2014.

What?

Alonso got triple points than Kimi in 2014, Seb didn´t get double in 2015. That´s a difference I think.

Maybe it was not me who got asleep through 2015