2016 Grand Prix of Brazil - Interlagos, 11-13 November

[Jolle]

All this back and forth about small hands and clutches and we haven't even discussed the possibility for a Suzuka, Adelaide or Jerez ending

[atanatizante]

Is it me but it seems that Nico`s spin was very similar with Grosjean`s accident before the race ...
For start it was in the same corner and the second reason, in Grosjean`s case, it was found to be a turn-in-oversteer caused by a glitch in his gearbox software ...
So maybe that was the case also with Nico`s gearbox (and I know it`s a wishful thinking) but why not he must be forced to change it in Abu Dhabi as a precautionary measure?
It`s one which is on the end of its duty cycle and being in his car for the last 5 races in a row, isn`t it?

[Manoah2u]

Are you seriously comparing athletics to F1?

You have a screw loose if you don't think the drivers are athletes.

'worse' even, F1 drivers are even more athletic then your 'average' athlete, and that
actually includes olympic level. F1 drivers take such strain and force they need to excersize to the extreme.
just take a look at Button, taking Triathlons like it's baking pancakes sunday morning.

another clue on just how 'fit' F1 drivers are is when you look into their healing capabilities. Their recovery
progress from several injuries is much faster than average, far better than even football players.

The fact they don't compete in olympics or also completely own other categories is because that takes training
and 'perfection' which they consume into F1 already.

but yes, F1 drivers and athletics are absolutely comparable.

[Manoah2u]

@turbof1 Mercedes also gave them gloves with thinner fabric in the fingers. It doesn't matter someone may do the math some day but I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts that lost positions/points due to bad starts (keeping in mind that Rosberg had his as well) is a nice red herring explanation of why clearly Hamilton is losing the championship.

Rosberg is lucky because he's got little hands?

No, the explanation is simple - Hamilton has lost 28 points to an engine failure in Malaysia, plus a bunch earlier in the season with low-down the grid starts due to either engine failures, or penalties for engine failures.

the Malaysia DNF is really the killer there. If that didn't happen, he'd be 25 points further up in total, making it a 380 in total,
and would actually take 3 points off from Nico, 364 in total for Rosberg would that serious 'injury' to the championship not have occurred. Yes, that means Lewis would have been a total of 24 points ahead, and would have Lewis only needing to secure 1 point in the next GP to get his WDC.

That however simply did not happen so this is what we're dealing with now. Looking back doesn't change a thing, neither does the fact that Lewis has been severly unlucky and on the most recieving end of tech problems where Nico has been on the better side of things.

If we look at the pure racing, then it's an awesome battle and Nico despite being much 'calmer' puts up a very good performance to get that WDC on his achievement list. Still doesn't change the fact that Lewis simply has had more bad luck.

Perhaps we can argue that Lewis' tech problems are atleast slightly due to the fact that he's more agressive compared to Nico, and that his car breaks down thanks to that when Nico's driving style keeps it intact. "To finish first, first you have to finish". Perhaps the Merc is simply a tad more fragile, though i must admit seeing Nico dooing some bumpercarts on opponents and getting slammed by Vettel shows the car is not that fragile we may believe it to be.

Either way, it doesn't change the fact.

The awesome thing is though that the season is ending in the most awesome fashion and we're in for a great final race,
and that Lewis has maintained his game up until now. It's great to see him get that Brazil GP finally, and additionaly, it was pure gold to see Verstappen go like he did.

most awesome race i've seen in ages.

Oh and for the stubborn haters claiming it's going to be dry and boring; i hope you're eating your hat now. and do eat it dry and salty.

[turbof1]

Now let's just focus on the article and not the author. Here is the topic of the article.

Tech analysis: How Hamilton resolved his start issues

And here is what he says with regards to the topic...

The shape of the up-shift paddle has been revised slightly, increasing the distance between it and the clutch paddle (left arrow), whilst the previously flat surface of the clutch paddle (right arrow) has been exchanged for an elongated triangular wedge.

These changes may seem minor on the surface but tactility and ergonomy are huge factors in the individualization of each drivers working environment.

There is seriously nothing valuable to understand what went in Hamilton's exercise at the factory and simulator, except for the small design change that he has highlighted. For people who have been following this sport for a very long time and spend almost everyday here, articles like that brings no real value for technical discussion. If some new bees are reading that article, might they just end up believing that, the small design change has cured the problem.

This piece of thread started, when someone said, Lewis should have spent the time early in the season to fix the issue and then "ChrisDanger" quoted this article when I had a counter question about how are we concluding that it was all driver and not the equipment that is at fault.

There is nothing against Matt and I am just being critical of misleading title, or the information in the article not doing justice to the title of the article.

I agree this does not necessarily solve the underlying issue (it can, we just don't know if the solutions applied were enough). I'm not a mechanical expert by any means, but they told us they could only fix this during the off-season, which means the issue has to be homologated and fixed across the year. My guess it involves the gear ratio's (and if this blatantly wrong, then please someone correct me), which are fixed for the whole season. There must be a too agressive approach in there which makes the clutch marginal.

Now, that still leaves both drivers with the exact same problem to deal with. It's not like one clutch is worse then the other. Well it can be, but Hamilton is having these issues spread across the season. And you have to agree Rosberg dealt with it far better than Hamilton. Again, these are not assumptions, these are what the facts are. I believe Rosberg made one bad getaway, and Hamilton 3 or 4.

Brings me to this:

There is seriously nothing valuable to understand what went in Hamilton's exercise at the factory and simulator, except for the small design change that he has highlighted. For people who have been following this sport for a very long time and spend almost everyday here, articles like that brings no real value for technical discussion. If some new bees are reading that article, might they just end up believing that, the small design change has cured the problem.

I really do not understand why trying to tackle a severe weakness, is not valuable. If Hamilton for instance had a bad start in both Mexico and US and ended up behind Rosberg, Rosberg would already be WDC now. This is not just valuable, it's crucial towards trying to keep Hamilton's chances atleast alive. It's technical too, since the changes are visible and measurable, and influence a very important of the race.

This piece of thread started, when someone said, Lewis should have spent the time early in the season to fix the issue and then "ChrisDanger" quoted this article when I had a counter question about how are we concluding that it was all driver and not the equipment that is at fault.

Because the equipment technically is not broken or malfunctioning. It is doing what is designed to do. Only it works in a very narrow window. This is comparable to the brake "issue" both Mercedes had in Singapore. The brake ducts were giving the intended cooling, which was little, and both drivers had to manage it. Equally, both drivers have to manage a very edgy clutch all season. But that is up to the driver. And the clutch works when the driver brings it to the correct temperature and finds the correct bite point.

The article gives insight on the changes and crucially also tells us Hamilton is trying to do something about his bad starts. If Matt did not made an article around this, we would not know Hamilton is trying to sort it out. Reporting that the changes applied were done after simulation work yields background to the technical changes. Cause and effect.

(now I'm really tangled up in semantics. I'm out.)

[nevill3]

Earlier in the season, before the summer break, Hamilton said in an interview on Sky TV that he had been doing a lot of work on his start procedures with his "start" technician. This was after all the initial troublesome starts he and Nico had been experiencing. As already said the clutch was not delivering consistent results and after Hamilton's homework, his starts improved for a while and he was able to catch and pass Nico in the WDC.

[Restomaniac]

After all this, Rosberg better win the championship in Abu Dhabi otherwise Hamilton fans will never be able to live it down.

Not really.
If someone wins 10 races to 9 then he certainly more deserving for the WDC then someone who wins 9 and has had all the luck in the world.

[turbof1]

After all this, Rosberg better win the championship in Abu Dhabi otherwise Hamilton fans will never be able to live it down.

Not really.
If someone wins 10 races to 9 then he certainly more deserving for the WDC then someone who wins 9 and has had all the luck in the world.

If Rosberg wins, it would actually be 10 wins for him and 9 wins for Hamilton. So I take it you find Rosberg in that case more deserving of the title ?

[Restomaniac]

After all this, Rosberg better win the championship in Abu Dhabi otherwise Hamilton fans will never be able to live it down.

Not really.
If someone wins 10 races to 9 then he certainly more deserving for the WDC then someone who wins 9 and has had all the luck in the world.

If Rosberg wins, it would actually be 10 wins for him and 9 wins for Hamilton. So I take it you find Rosberg in that case more deserving of the title ?

The devil will be in the detail but yes if he beats a Hamilton who will clearly be on the edge and pushing due to chasing then yes I would imagine I would.

[turbof1]

The devil will be in the detail but yes if he beats a Hamilton who will clearly be on the edge and pushing due to chasing then yes I would imagine I would.

I wonder how you'll deal with it based on the wins if somebody else gets the top podium in Abu Dhabi, with both Hamilton and Rosberg ending on 9 wins. I'm going to draw a cautionary explosion zone around you for now .

My take is you shouldn't be that much focussed on the wins right now. They both have a high number on that front and ultimately they will only at best end up with 1 more win then the other. There are past champions who won the title despite have multiple wins less then their competitor.

[smiley]

He mentiones it in the post race interview. Lots of racing/training in the wet in karting and F3.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dS_UN39LYA[/youtube]

This one is also fun to watch. With his dad at the karting track.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lxj4wUrLemM[/youtube]

[ds.raikkonen]

Not really.
If someone wins 10 races to 9 then he certainly more deserving for the WDC then someone who wins 9 and has had all the luck in the world.

If Rosberg wins, it would actually be 10 wins for him and 9 wins for Hamilton. So I take it you find Rosberg in that case more deserving of the title ?

The devil will be in the detail but yes if he beats a Hamilton who will clearly be on the edge and pushing due to chasing then yes I would imagine I would.

In 2008, Hamilton did not had to beat 'on the edge Massa' to become WC
Rosberg simply has to outscore Hamilton to become WC, end of story. This whole 'deserving' affair is something promoted by SkySports who can't accept Hamilton not becoming WC. So they want to discredit others who do. Hamilton was imperious in Brazil though, Rosberg had no idea how to get near him, but drove as best as he could in the conditions.

[Fulcrum]

Let's put it this way; if Rosberg does win, he will probably be the least publicised World Champion of the modern era.

There will be some articles celebrating the achievement, probably emphasising his consistency etc... Otherwise, I fully expect the news cycle to very quickly revert to 2017.

If Hamilton manages to win I expect to see far more news coverage, both in volume and duration, before the focus switches to next year.

[djos]

Let's put it this way; if Rosberg does win, he will probably be the least publicised World Champion of the modern era.

There will be some articles celebrating the achievement, probably emphasising his consistency etc... Otherwise, I fully expect the news cycle to very quickly revert to 2017.

If Hamilton manages to win I expect to see far more news coverage, both in volume and duration, before the focus switches to next year.

I think the old "better lucky than good" saying would apply to a Rosberg WDC win. Personally I think Jenson deserved his WDC more than Rosberg would (and I dont rate him that much, he's good but not great), at least Jenson was the dominant driver in his team that year.

[Fulcrum]

Let's put it this way; if Rosberg does win, he will probably be the least publicised World Champion of the modern era.

There will be some articles celebrating the achievement, probably emphasising his consistency etc... Otherwise, I fully expect the news cycle to very quickly revert to 2017.

If Hamilton manages to win I expect to see far more news coverage, both in volume and duration, before the focus switches to next year.

I think the old "better lucky than good" saying would apply to a Rosberg WDC win. Personally I think Jenson deserved his WDC more than Rosberg would (and I dont rate him that much, he's good but not great), at least Jenson was the dominant driver in his team that year.

Reminds me of one of the funnier cricketing sledges I can remember.

Upon James Ormond’s arrival at the crease Mark Waugh said . "*&^% me, look who it is. Mate, what are you doing out here? There’s no way you’re good enough to play for England.”

Ormond replied: “Maybe not, but at least I’m the best player in my family.”