The 2016 F1 WDC Title Dumpster Topic

[SR71]

lets assume we all agree about the respective performance difference between the two Merc drivers.

I think given that Nico's championship is all the more impressive, especially in his 4th season against Lewis. When you're down on raw speed then only thing you can do is what Nico has done. Massive consistency and maximum pickup of points that fall your way through luck.

There is nothing wrong with giving him a little respect. He is the underdog against a titan and today he came out on top. Many mentally weaker drivers would left with their tails tucked after facing the domination impossed by hamilton. Not even the great Alonso could take it after all.


PS - I'm so sick of hearing about Malaysia and nobody mentions what happened to Nico and his stellar recovery drive. Had he not stepped up and came from 17th to 3rd we wouldn't be having this discussion. He made his own luck that day.

[mwillems]

The lack of sportmanship from some here is very pityful to say the least.

Personally I think the 1950's concept of sportsmanship is highly overrated, and exaggerated.

Granted. However, I am taking an issue when we have people accusing eachother of being sour losers, fanboys, haters, ... . The majority around here should be adults, but I don't notice a lot of it right now. Which is very dissapointing since the topics started out very constructive and people where actually debating instead of well... whatever you call it now. My only wish is for members to show more respect against eachother.

Anyway, I'm working through the topic and I am taking action against people not following forum guidelines.

Yes the forum has gone quite mad after all the fun and games in the race today.

Rosberg won, fair and square. Yeah, Lewis had a lot of bad luck, some made for him and some made by him. But that is the way it is. I don't think you could argue who is the better driver. But this year Rosberg did enough to capitalise on Hamiltons bad luck and to bring the points home.

Was Hamilton going too far in has tactics today? Well, the history of F1 is soaked in teams and drivers taking rules to the very limit and often beyond. But Hamilton didn't go beyond the rules of the sport or near. If he was in breach of Team orders, that is personal to him and the Team, I think. As fans, we don't need to take issue (Unless we delight in being upset and throwing tomatoes at the pantomime villain, which is your prerogative). Did he do a Senna or a Prost? No, nowhere near. A Schumacher vs Hill or Villeneuve? No. So if he isn't racing in the spisit of F1 greats, then good, perhaps that is why he didn't try to ram Rosberg off the road. Not that he could, Nico was too scared to go near him!

Which is the other point, if he was going slow, why not get up his gearbox and push him. He gave Nico a choice, chance it with 3rd and 4th or chance it with Hamilton. Nico still always had a choice, he wasn't a victim. But it seems to rather reflect him rather well in my opinion, that he came across as a bit helpless.

All I ask for, is to be entertained. And today Ham did this magnificently and it surprises me that in one of the dullest eras of F1, people don't appreciate it more.

Also, I'm not a Ham fan, I totally respect him as an amazing driver, but to be fair, the guy is a complete d....

So in short, yeah, he was unlucky, he's the better driver, but mate, that's the way the cookie crumbles.

Disappointing to see him make his remark to Rosberg on the Podium, about being in the position because of the car. It's over now, be a bit more gracious. Just trying to spoil someones day cos you're sulking is what gets those haters hating, methinks.....

Well done Nico for bringing it home. Alonso for 2017!!

[Restomaniac]

Sorry to be a wet blanket to the burning Louie love, but Hamilton only had one competitor all year and he failed to beat him.

No he did beat him 10 times to 9 and 11 times to 8.
He also beat him in the needing engines stakes 8 engines to 5 as well.

Lewis needed 6 ICE's and they stock upon other components at Spa .
http://formula1insider78.blogspot.com.t ... ge_62.html

You are aware that 'engine' means more than just the ICE right?
Lewis Hamiltons usage numbers are 8 for TC's and 8 for MGU-H's unless you think he would be fine to use damaged TC and MGU-H's

[turbof1]

No he did beat him 10 times to 9 and 11 times to 8.
He also beat him in the needing engines stakes 8 engines to 5 as well.

Lewis needed 6 ICE's and they stock upon other components at Spa .
http://formula1insider78.blogspot.com.t ... ge_62.html

You are aware that 'engine' means more than just the ICE right?
Lewis Hamiltons usage numbers are 8 for TC's and 8 for MGU-H's unless you think he would be fine to use damaged TC and MGU-H's

With all respect, but engine does either mean a full PU or the ICE. A PU component would have been a much better choice of words. You can't exactly blame LionKing for pointing out that Hamilton used 6 ICE's, not 8. I know this is something you can easily overlook, but I can understand the confusion.

You are right of course: Hamilton did need 8 of 2 PU components.

[Restomaniac]

Lewis needed 6 ICE's and they stock upon other components at Spa .
http://formula1insider78.blogspot.com.t ... ge_62.html

You are aware that 'engine' means more than just the ICE right?
Lewis Hamiltons usage numbers are 8 for TC's and 8 for MGU-H's unless you think he would be fine to use damaged TC and MGU-H's

With all respect, but engine does either mean a full PU or the ICE. A PU component would have been a much better choice of words.

You are right of course: Hamilton did need 8 of 2 PU components.

I can accept that. Sorry.

[turbof1]

You are aware that 'engine' means more than just the ICE right?
Lewis Hamiltons usage numbers are 8 for TC's and 8 for MGU-H's unless you think he would be fine to use damaged TC and MGU-H's

With all respect, but engine does either mean a full PU or the ICE. A PU component would have been a much better choice of words.

You are right of course: Hamilton did need 8 of 2 PU components.

I can accept that. Sorry.

You are not the first nor the last to be confusing on that front. That is a mistake quite easy to make, so don't be too upset about it either .

I actually did not realise Hamilton had to use 8 turbo chargers and 8 MGU-H's. It looks like correlation between the 2, with one being damaged the other gets damaged as well.

[RedNEO]

Personally I think the 1950's concept of sportsmanship is highly overrated, and exaggerated.

Granted. However, I am taking an issue when we have people accusing eachother of being sour losers, fanboys, haters, ... . The majority around here should be adults, but I don't notice a lot of it right now. Which is very dissapointing since the topics started out very constructive and people where actually debating instead of well... whatever you call it now. My only wish is for members to show more respect against eachother.

Anyway, I'm working through the topic and I am taking action against people not following forum guidelines.

Yes the forum has gone quite mad after all the fun and games in the race today.

Rosberg won, fair and square. Yeah, Lewis had a lot of bad luck, some made for him and some made by him. But that is the way it is. I don't think you could argue who is the better driver. But this year Rosberg did enough to capitalise on Hamiltons bad luck and to bring the points home.

Was Hamilton going too far in has tactics today? Well, the history of F1 is soaked in teams and drivers taking rules to the very limit and often beyond. But Hamilton didn't go beyond the rules of the sport or near. If he was in breach of Team orders, that is personal to him and the Team, I think. As fans, we don't need to take issue (Unless we delight in being upset and throwing tomatoes at the pantomime villain, which is your prerogative). Did he do a Senna or a Prost? No, nowhere near. A Schumacher vs Hill or Villeneuve? No. So if he isn't racing in the spisit of F1 greats, then good, perhaps that is why he didn't try to ram Rosberg off the road. Not that he could, Nico was too scared to go near him!

Which is the other point, if he was going slow, why not get up his gearbox and push him. He gave Nico a choice, chance it with 3rd and 4th or chance it with Hamilton. Nico still always had a choice, he wasn't a victim. But it seems to rather reflect him rather well in my opinion, that he came across as a bit helpless.

All I ask for, is to be entertained. And today Ham did this magnificently and it surprises me that in one of the dullest eras of F1, people don't appreciate it more.

Also, I'm not a Ham fan, I totally respect him as an amazing driver, but to be fair, the guy is a complete d....

So in short, yeah, he was unlucky, he's the better driver, but mate, that's the way the cookie crumbles.

Disappointing to see him make his remark to Rosberg on the Podium, about being in the position because of the car. It's over now, be a bit more gracious. Just trying to spoil someones day cos you're sulking is what gets those haters hating, methinks.....

Well done Nico for bringing it home. Alonso for 2017!!

Agreed, especially on your last sentence

[LionKing]

You are right of course: Hamilton did need 8 of 2 PU components.

I am not sure he needed all 8 of those anyway. But once you have enough penalties to go to the back of the grid (not very hard after 10 + 10 for two components I think), it does not hurt to take a bunch more in the same grand prix.

[Restomaniac]

With all respect, but engine does either mean a full PU or the ICE. A PU component would have been a much better choice of words.

You are right of course: Hamilton did need 8 of 2 PU components.

I can accept that. Sorry.

You are not the first nor the last to be confusing on that front. That is a mistake quite easy to make, so don't be too upset about it either .

I actually did not realise Hamilton had to use 8 turbo chargers and 8 MGU-H's. It looks like correlation between the 2, with one being damaged the other gets damaged as well.

As far as I understand it the MGU-H is IN the TC so if the MGU-H goes bang it as you say takes TC with it. And vice versa.

[basti313]

Was Hamilton going too far in has tactics today? Well, the history of F1 is soaked in teams and drivers taking rules to the very limit and often beyond. But Hamilton didn't go beyond the rules of the sport or near. If he was in breach of Team orders, that is personal to him and the Team, I think. As fans, we don't need to take issue (Unless we delight in being upset and throwing tomatoes at the pantomime villain, which is your prerogative).

Well, how you treat your team and your teammate puts a certain picture on you, doesn't it?
I agree with the sportsmanship: I do not really care about the two and their personal reasons. But it is VERY interesting how it will be dealed within the team. Taking a look at the Merc company values and their incredible hard way to sack people who do not comply, this would be a clear sack in the Merc company. But, of course, this is something else here. Wolff's words were quite hard, so he needs to take action, otherwise he is the weak blanket many think of him. If anyone in the Merc team (Paddy, Wolff or Lauda) would like to do Ham any harm, they would put him on the bench for 3 races and tell him "good luck with the WDC 2017". But I rather hope and think Ham will lift the company's revenue and the christmas gratification for the normal employees with his penalty.

So for me the action they take is the real interesting point. I fear that they will do nothing.

he didn't try to ram Rosberg off the road. Not that he could, Nico was too scared to go near him!

Well, Schu, Senna, Prost and so on were driving on racing tracks with gravel and barriers. Running Nico off the lines on a parking space does not make much sense.

Which is the other point, if he was going slow, why not get up his gearbox and push him. He gave Nico a choice, chance it with 3rd and 4th or chance it with Hamilton. Nico still always had a choice, he wasn't a victim. But it seems to rather reflect him rather well in my opinion, that he came across as a bit helpless.

Again: This is not the first race in Abu Dhabi and this is not the first time one Merc has no chance to overtake the other Merc. Ham did it clever, he stopped on the apexes in S3 and put his foot down hard in S1 and S2.
Sorry, but you simply have no idea about modern F1 if you think Ros could have just attacked.

[The_table]

Is there an argument to be made that Rosberg is nicer to his car and its components than Hamiliton?

[basti313]

Is there an argument to be made that Rosberg is nicer to his car and its components than Hamiliton?

No.

[turbof1]

Is there an argument to be made that Rosberg is nicer to his car and its components than Hamiliton?

No.

Not that I disagree, but can you expand on that ?

[sosic2121]

Sorry to be a wet blanket to the burning Louie love, but Hamilton only had one competitor all year and he failed to beat him.

No he did beat him 10 times to 9 and 11 times to 8.
He also beat him in the needing engines stakes 8 engines to 5 as well.

You have to ask yourself what was the score BEFORE Nico realised he only needs to be 2nd to win the championship.
He is a "smart" driver and Lewis is not(I'm don't want to insult Lewis). That is the reason he's 2016 WDC and Lewis is not 2007 WDC.
Also, maybe Nico is better at managing the car and that is way it failed more to Lewis.
In the end, if 1 single thing stopped Lewis, it were his poor starts and not reliability.

[ScottB]

I'm a little puzzled about the teams apparent reaction to what Lewis did.

Wolff has made much of the guys being free to race. This was the final race of the season, the constructors title was in the bag, one Merc driver was going to take the drivers no matter what happened. The team telling Hamilton he had to speed up because of Max / Vettel catching up sounds reasonable in a normal race, but today it was effectively telling Lewis to give up the slim chance of retaining his title.

Was he ever going to respond to that? Why should he? Yes, you have to do right by your team, but asking your driver to throw in the towel, because your other driver apparently lacked the capability to pass on his own, that seems somewhat unreasonable from the team to me.

Ultimately, the team had nothing to gain from getting involved, those messages seem a bit daft, Lewis was never going to follow them. Nico asking to be let through only adds to the idea that he can't fully go toe to toe with Hamilton too. The smarter thing would have been for the team to say that they wouldn't get involved, and that all bets were off, other than avoiding any contact.