2016 Grand Prix of Abu Dhabi - Yas Marina, 25-27 November

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Vettelswonmeover
Vettelswonmeover
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Abu Dhabi - Yas Marina, 25-27 November

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AMG.Tzan wrote:Toto pissed off with Hamilton! "Christian (Horner) had the idea of slowing Nico down and he (Hamilton) listened to him...maybe he should drive for him!" Nice one Toto...18 wins already this year...what's the point in maybe losing one and letting people enjoy Formula 1 a bit more! Not that Hamilton would have let Sebastian thru but ok! Oh and Nico had the option to pass Hamilton but he didn't have the speed apparently... :P
Someone needs to talk some sense into Toto. Last race of the season. Hamilton would have won it anyways. He had to win to have a chance at the WDC. Something tells me that he and Merc wanted Rosberg to win the WDC.
Vettel was amazing. Ferrari screwed Kimi. The Ferrari strategy team needs to be repalced ASAP.

Dani Ric got screwed for no fault of his own. They compromised his strategy based on Max' spin. Unique!

Happy that this season and hopefully this mini-era of Merc dominance has come to a close. Bring on 2017!

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Vasconia
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Abu Dhabi - Yas Marina, 25-27 November

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Vettelswonmeover wrote:
AMG.Tzan wrote:Toto pissed off with Hamilton! "Christian (Horner) had the idea of slowing Nico down and he (Hamilton) listened to him...maybe he should drive for him!" Nice one Toto...18 wins already this year...what's the point in maybe losing one and letting people enjoy Formula 1 a bit more! Not that Hamilton would have let Sebastian thru but ok! Oh and Nico had the option to pass Hamilton but he didn't have the speed apparently... :P
Someone needs to talk some sense into Toto. Last race of the season. Hamilton would have won it anyways. He had to win to have a chance at the WDC. Something tells me that he and Merc wanted Rosberg to win the WDC.
Vettel was amazing. Ferrari screwed Kimi. The Ferrari strategy team needs to be repalced ASAP.

Dani Ric got screwed for no fault of his own. They compromised his strategy based on Max' spin. Unique!

Happy that this season and hopefully this mini-era of Merc dominance has come to a close. Bring on 2017!
For Mercedes was a pretty tense race because Hamilton´s strategy could have ruined Rosberg´s chances to win but also Hamilton´s victory in this race.

Vettel had a great race, I had my doubts with his strategy but it worked very well. Its true that Kimi´s strategy was worse but its good to see Ferrari tyring different strategies and not only one. It was a wise move.

I really want to see again that Rosberg-Verstappen battle!!

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Vasconia
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Abu Dhabi - Yas Marina, 25-27 November

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zac510 wrote:
I can't believe that anyone who criticizes Hamilton's tactics would not do the same in his situation. Fortunately for them they likely won't be in the same situation ever, so they will just criticise knowing that they can never be proven to be hypocritical.
True, not the most honorable strategy but a legal one, and lets be sincere, every single driver would have done the same.

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Vasconia
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Abu Dhabi - Yas Marina, 25-27 November

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ringo wrote:Since this is about the race and not the dumpster thread.. i mention vettel not being too willing to try attacking nico harder.
He claimed that he didn't have any tyres left.
What do you all think?
He put Nico under a great pressure and he tried to find the space but Nico defended himself very well(though some dont think so Nico can do something right). Anyway he didnt do anything too crazy because you know, no driver wants to decide a championship with a collision. It wasn´t a comfortable momento for Vettel either.

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Vasconia
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Abu Dhabi - Yas Marina, 25-27 November

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By the way, not the best farewell for a guy like Jens but those images were touching. We loose a fine driver and a gentleman.

Vettelswonmeover
Vettelswonmeover
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Abu Dhabi - Yas Marina, 25-27 November

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Vasconia wrote:
Vettelswonmeover wrote:
AMG.Tzan wrote:Toto pissed off with Hamilton! "Christian (Horner) had the idea of slowing Nico down and he (Hamilton) listened to him...maybe he should drive for him!" Nice one Toto...18 wins already this year...what's the point in maybe losing one and letting people enjoy Formula 1 a bit more! Not that Hamilton would have let Sebastian thru but ok! Oh and Nico had the option to pass Hamilton but he didn't have the speed apparently... :P
Someone needs to talk some sense into Toto. Last race of the season. Hamilton would have won it anyways. He had to win to have a chance at the WDC. Something tells me that he and Merc wanted Rosberg to win the WDC.
Vettel was amazing. Ferrari screwed Kimi. The Ferrari strategy team needs to be repalced ASAP.

Dani Ric got screwed for no fault of his own. They compromised his strategy based on Max' spin. Unique!

Happy that this season and hopefully this mini-era of Merc dominance has come to a close. Bring on 2017!
For Mercedes was a pretty tense race because Hamilton´s strategy could have ruined Rosberg´s chances to win but also Hamilton´s victory in this race.

Vettel had a great race, I had my doubts with his strategy but it worked very well. Its true that Kimi´s strategy was worse but its good to see Ferrari tyring different strategies and not only one. It was a wise move.

I really want to see again that Rosberg-Verstappen battle!!
Rosberg pulled a Verstappen on Verstappen. Mercs did not need to interfere really. The have so many wins and the constructors WC. They did not need to bother about the victory. They have put a taint on themselves by interfering. It indicates their bias to Rosberg indirectly.

Good to see Vettel back in his element. Ferrari should not have panicked and should have put Kimi on the same strategy. He beat Vettel 11-10 in qualifying though. Good on him!

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Vasconia
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Abu Dhabi - Yas Marina, 25-27 November

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Vettelswonmeover wrote:
Rosberg pulled a Verstappen on Verstappen. Mercs did not need to interfere really. The have so many wins and the constructors WC. They did not need to bother about the victory. They have put a taint on themselves by interfering. It indicates their bias to Rosberg indirectly.

Good to see Vettel back in his element. Ferrari should not have panicked and should have put Kimi on the same strategy. He beat Vettel 11-10 in qualifying though. Good on him!
I dont know, Mercedes has been very careful to give always the same strategy, tyres,etc to both drivers. Even putting some victories under risk because of this.

Anyway, it was pretty difficult to decide what to do. 2017 will be hard if other teams (hopefully) can put Mercedes under pressure.

Yeah, nice to see Vettel being fast and with no complains on the radio. I hope to see the best Sebastian back in 2017.

zac510
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Abu Dhabi - Yas Marina, 25-27 November

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Vasconia wrote:
zac510 wrote:
I can't believe that anyone who criticizes Hamilton's tactics would not do the same in his situation. Fortunately for them they likely won't be in the same situation ever, so they will just criticise knowing that they can never be proven to be hypocritical.
True, not the most honorable strategy but a legal one, and lets be sincere, every single driver would have done the same.
Any driver who doesn't do it would make a perfect #2 driver!

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Vasconia
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Abu Dhabi - Yas Marina, 25-27 November

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zac510 wrote:
Vasconia wrote:
zac510 wrote:
I can't believe that anyone who criticizes Hamilton's tactics would not do the same in his situation. Fortunately for them they likely won't be in the same situation ever, so they will just criticise knowing that they can never be proven to be hypocritical.
True, not the most honorable strategy but a legal one, and lets be sincere, every single driver would have done the same.
Any driver who doesn't do it would make a perfect #2 driver!
Perhaps but you could choose to simply win the race and wait for your rival´s mistake. More honorable, less intelligent. Anyway this stragy mad the race much more interesting but I can imagine how pissed of feld Nico during some laps. Because I know that if he would have tried to overtake Lewis, it would have been a collision.

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Phil
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Abu Dhabi - Yas Marina, 25-27 November

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ringo wrote:Dani Ric is also like max, he dive bombs and tries to make it stick. Some think he is the best overtaker, but i think he has exposed himself not to be. He tends to do these dive bombs, and when they don't work he loses the place and also loses a lot of pace. He and his teammate deserve similar criticism for their driving. I wouldn't be too hard on Max, as both redbull drivers are more like crash bandicoots than honey badgers.
When they can attack and fail, and still be in a position a few corners later to setup another attack that's when i could say they are good at overtaking. Max isnt as bad as playstation driver, he just needs a little more experience and polish.
To be fair, the current formula doesn't exactly make any other form of overtaking easy. Throwing one "up the inside" is probably one of the most effective maneuvers one can do - especially when you have an advantage with tire grip, which equals higher cornering performance and better braking. Apart from that, what other means of overtaking is there? Around the outside is always nice - but you're pretty much a by passenger and it absolutely requires the guy on the inside to play nice and show respect (e.g. not push you wide). Looks fantastic when you pull it off - but it rarely does.

The only chance you'll see two cars overtaking each other in this formula is when one car is significantly quicker than the other. Want better overtaking, the formula needs to change to something like in Formula-E or GP2 or the other lower formulas...

PS: Dan Ricciardo has shown on various occasions that he is a brilliant overtaker, for example at RedBull in 2014 against Vettel. Same applies to Max too...
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

krisfx
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Abu Dhabi - Yas Marina, 25-27 November

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Phil wrote:
ringo wrote:Dani Ric is also like max, he dive bombs and tries to make it stick. Some think he is the best overtaker, but i think he has exposed himself not to be. He tends to do these dive bombs, and when they don't work he loses the place and also loses a lot of pace. He and his teammate deserve similar criticism for their driving. I wouldn't be too hard on Max, as both redbull drivers are more like crash bandicoots than honey badgers.
When they can attack and fail, and still be in a position a few corners later to setup another attack that's when i could say they are good at overtaking. Max isnt as bad as playstation driver, he just needs a little more experience and polish.
To be fair, the current formula doesn't exactly make any other form of overtaking easy. Throwing one "up the inside" is probably one of the most effective maneuvers one can do - especially when you have an advantage with tire grip, which equals higher cornering performance and better braking. Apart from that, what other means of overtaking is there? Around the outside is always nice - but you're pretty much a by passenger and it absolutely requires the guy on the inside to play nice and show respect (e.g. not push you wide). Looks fantastic when you pull it off - but it rarely does.

The only chance you'll see two cars overtaking each other in this formula is when one car is significantly quicker than the other. Want better overtaking, the formula needs to change to something like in Formula-E or GP2 or the other lower formulas...

PS: Dan Ricciardo has shown on various occasions that he is a brilliant overtaker, for example at RedBull in 2014 against Vettel. Same applies to Max too...
I think F1 needs to either be a spec series or more diverse. There are much better battles in GP2 etc but also WEC. The problem with F1 is it's just in that horrible grey area in the middle

i70q7m7ghw
i70q7m7ghw
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Abu Dhabi - Yas Marina, 25-27 November

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Anyone else sense Vettel didn't want to overtake Rosberg even if he had the chance? Even at the end of the race he was only talking about overtaking both drivers, and he felt the need to justify to his own team that it "was a difficult situation".

Anyway, massive congratulations to Nico, he drove a near faultless season and maximised every opportunity he had to collect points, and it's paid off. I feel a little gutted for Hamilton, he drove very well himself and was the unluckier of the two this year, but let's not forget he had some tardy starts and a silly error in Azerbaijan which lost him crucial points.

It's a shame Merc felt the need to get involved in the final race, they were guaranteed both championships, and we had a fantastic finish for the fans. Merc can only damaged their own image by taking any further action against their drivers. The best thing to do now is drawn a neat line under 2016, and look to 2017.

Gettingonabit
Gettingonabit
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Abu Dhabi - Yas Marina, 25-27 November

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Diesel wrote:.................................... Anyway, massive congratulations to Nico, he drove a near faultless season and maximised every opportunity he had to collect points, and it's paid off. I feel a little gutted for Hamilton, he drove very well himself and was the unluckier of the two this year, but let's not forget he had some tardy starts and a silly error in Azerbaijan which lost him crucial points.

It's a shame Merc felt the need to get involved in the final race, they were guaranteed both championships, and we had a fantastic finish for the fans. Merc can only damaged their own image by taking any further action against their drivers. The best thing to do now is drawn a neat line under 2016, and look to 2017.
I nice balanced summary of both this race and the season.

Merc (Toto) should be ashamed of themselves, before the start Toto said "no interference from us they are free to race" (or words to that effect), ha - all their actions have done is open themselves up to accusations of bias, which I actually believe is not the case, but how stupid. :(

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WaikeCU
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Abu Dhabi - Yas Marina, 25-27 November

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I honestly don't think Vettel would have been able to win the race. The reason he got so close to Rosberg was because Hamilton lowered his pace in sector 3, which caused them to bunch up. I'm pretty sure that if Vettel got past Rosberg, Lewis would have upped his pace again and controlled the gap behind him. That's the reason why imo Hamilton was majestic in controlling the race. He knew where he had to lower his pace and where he had to open a 1s gap behind him. This is track knowledge at its finest. Let's be honest, the last 5-7 turns of the track are not areas where you overtake anyone. It's right there where he lowered his pace.

Management of Mercedes (cfr. Paddy, Toto and Niki) are very control minded imo. I don't think they can assess the chances of risk that well. If there's any chance of risk, then they'll write down 90% risk, so they'll have to intervene their drivers. IMO the mentality of the management at Mercedes is totally different to a true racing team. They see it absolutely as a business and not a sport. They could have gone with a winning streak of race wins and a streak of titles with Hamilton that would be remembered for as long as F1 will ever exist. Somehow they wanted to swap crew before the season began. I always believed Ramsey's philosophy of "Never change a winning team", but somehow they did and for what? To stay focused and competitive? Wait, weren't they focused and competitive in 2014 and 2015? I think there's more behind it and maybe we'll find out one day or we won't. I wonder how longer they can manage this team.

Sad to see how the season have ended for Manor. I've really hoped they would have ended in front of Sauber, but sadly the only glimpse we saw of the Manors is when they collided with each other.
Last edited by WaikeCU on 28 Nov 2016, 13:59, edited 1 time in total.

Wynters
Wynters
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Abu Dhabi - Yas Marina, 25-27 November

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Vasconia wrote:For Mercedes was a pretty tense race because Hamilton´s strategy could have ruined Rosberg´s chances to win but also Hamilton´s victory in this race.
Hamilton had got out and was pushing his car around by hand and Vettel still only barely managed to catch them (the rest couldn't even stay within touching distance of the Mercs). Given how much life he would have had left in his tyres, fuel reserves for high-performance engine modes and the normal advantage the Merc has over the Ferrari I don't see how Vettel would have passed him.

There wasn't even a realistic chance that Vettel would pass Rosberg.

I think Mercedes main concern was for internal team harmony. If, for instance, Hamilton backed Rosberg into Verstappen and there was a race-ending collision as a result I can't see how the Rosberg/Hamilton relationship survives. That, in turn, splits the Mercedes team as a whole as people will take sides.
Last edited by Wynters on 28 Nov 2016, 14:14, edited 2 times in total.