2016 Grand Prix of Abu Dhabi - Yas Marina, 25-27 November

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Vasconia
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Abu Dhabi - Yas Marina, 25-27 November

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Andres125sx wrote:
Vasconia wrote:I only know that some people who saw Fangio still maintain that he is the best in F1 history.
Maybe that has something to do with the fact he won WDCs with Alfa Romeo, Mercedes, Ferrari and Maserati.

When any driver win with different teams, that always increase his reputation, guess why? Exactly, because then you can be sure he´s a great driver instead of a lucky driver who drove best car :wink:

That´s F1, it is a team sport and only casual fans or fanboys make a relationship WDC winner = best driver on the grid
Yes the team and its members are important, I have said it more than once...

Well if you win with different teams is always a plus in comparison to a driver who has only won with one team. Anyway the analysis is quite complex and sometimes very subjetive. But its a nice fuel for endless discussion on this forum.

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Abu Dhabi - Yas Marina, 25-27 November

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Edax wrote:One of the turning points for RB this year is said to be VES giving the team direction in how to develop the car. something they were missing with WEB leaving.
Sorry but..... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


So it was a rookie who saved RBR from a bad development route :mrgreen: #-o

He must be really really good to be able to solve RBR problems even before his very first race with RBR, like a magician, because that´d the only way to make a winning car before your debut race. Or you did forget he won his very first race with RBR?

The turning point obviously was long before Verstappen´s debut, and it was related with something called PU :P

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Abu Dhabi - Yas Marina, 25-27 November

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Just_a_fan wrote:Without wishing to diminish Fangio's reputation (as if an internet posting could do so), he was well known for ensuring he had the best car. That's the reason he swapped teams so often. He chased the best car without loyalty for the teams. He made sure he had the best car and then did his bit to win in it.
Where did you hear/read that?

How did he know what was the best car to sign in with them before the beginning of the season?

How is then possible that only in 1 of his 5 titles his team mate was second while at the rest they were from 3rd to 6th? To me that does not look like a dominant car, maybe close to the top, but not what we call dominant today

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Abu Dhabi - Yas Marina, 25-27 November

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Vasconia wrote:
Andres125sx wrote:
Vasconia wrote:I only know that some people who saw Fangio still maintain that he is the best in F1 history.
Maybe that has something to do with the fact he won WDCs with Alfa Romeo, Mercedes, Ferrari and Maserati.

When any driver win with different teams, that always increase his reputation, guess why? Exactly, because then you can be sure he´s a great driver instead of a lucky driver who drove best car :wink:

That´s F1, it is a team sport and only casual fans or fanboys make a relationship WDC winner = best driver on the grid
Yes the team and its members are important, I have said it more than once...

Well if you win with different teams is always a plus in comparison to a driver who has only won with one team. Anyway the analysis is quite complex and sometimes very subjetive. But its a nice fuel for endless discussion on this forum.
Agree, and once the season is over we need some fuel :mrgreen:

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Vasconia
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Abu Dhabi - Yas Marina, 25-27 November

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Sure!

March is too far! haha. Its to watch some old races.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Abu Dhabi - Yas Marina, 25-27 November

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Andres125sx wrote:
Just_a_fan wrote:Without wishing to diminish Fangio's reputation (as if an internet posting could do so), he was well known for ensuring he had the best car. That's the reason he swapped teams so often. He chased the best car without loyalty for the teams. He made sure he had the best car and then did his bit to win in it.
Where did you hear/read that?
"Fangio did not remain loyal to any marque," Ferrari said, "and he invariably used every endeavour to ensure that he would always drive the best car available."

Stirling Moss is quick to point out why Fangio (who won championships with Alfa Romeo, Mercedes (twice), Ferrari and Maserati) always had the best car: "Because he was the best bloody driver! The cheapest method of becoming a successful Grand Prix team was to sign up Fangio."
From https://www.formula1.com/en/championshi ... angio.html for example
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

Edax
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Abu Dhabi - Yas Marina, 25-27 November

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Andres125sx wrote:
Edax wrote:One of the turning points for RB this year is said to be VES giving the team direction in how to develop the car. something they were missing with WEB leaving.
Sorry but..... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


So it was a rookie who saved RBR from a bad development route :mrgreen: #-o

He must be really really good to be able to solve RBR problems even before his very first race with RBR, like a magician, because that´d the only way to make a winning car before your debut race. Or you did forget he won his very first race with RBR?

The turning point obviously was long before Verstappen´s debut, and it was related with something called PU :P
Well at least Ves was in the car during that race in contrast to your PU upgrade which was only introduced in the test after the race if I'm not mistaken :lol:

Don't forget Ves won that race by making his tires last longer than anyone else including his teammate. (except maybe Rai as he had one less lap but more pace). The kid can set up a car.

Setup skills can not overcome a 50hp deficit, let that be clear. But they can make that bit of difference.

zac510
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Abu Dhabi - Yas Marina, 25-27 November

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I was thinking, they should make it a tradition (and not punish the driver/team for it) that the drivers championship winning car finishes the cool-down lap in the start-finish straight at the race that it does it.

Vettel in India and Rosberg in Abu Dhabi.. They were a nice touch and made great photos.

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Abu Dhabi - Yas Marina, 25-27 November

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Edax wrote:
Andres125sx wrote:
Edax wrote:One of the turning points for RB this year is said to be VES giving the team direction in how to develop the car. something they were missing with WEB leaving.
Sorry but..... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


So it was a rookie who saved RBR from a bad development route :mrgreen: #-o

He must be really really good to be able to solve RBR problems even before his very first race with RBR, like a magician, because that´d the only way to make a winning car before your debut race. Or you did forget he won his very first race with RBR?

The turning point obviously was long before Verstappen´s debut, and it was related with something called PU :P
Well at least Ves was in the car during that race in contrast to your PU upgrade which was only introduced in the test after the race if I'm not mistaken :lol:
So they didn´t use a PU before Spain? :mrgreen: :lol: :lol:

First upgrade, wich was the most important, was in winter :wink:

Take a look at Ricciardo results (to keep driver as a constant). Last 6 races of 2015:
15th-15th-10th-5th-11th-6th

And first 6 races of 2016, 6th race was Verstappen debut with victory:
4th-4th-4th-11th-4th-2nd

The improvement is obvious from first race of 2016 season, much before Verstappen debut, so sorry but your favourite driver surely is a great driver, but he can´t do magic and he´s far from the responsible of RBR improvement. RBR turnaround was not Verstappen, it was Renault-TagHeuer

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Abu Dhabi - Yas Marina, 25-27 November

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oh dear, surprise surprise, more #hatersgonnahate towards Max Verstappen. that's a first with "cartain" member(s) here. jeesh.

i have noticed there are only 2 options left in this board lately:

1) spitting battle regarding Rosberg/Hamilton
2) jealous hating on Verstappen

and here i was thinking the Abu Dhabi GP thread was to discuss the Abu Dhabi GP.....silly me
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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bdr529
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Location: Canada

Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Abu Dhabi - Yas Marina, 25-27 November

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Andres125sx wrote:
Just_a_fan wrote:Without wishing to diminish Fangio's reputation (as if an internet posting could do so), he was well known for ensuring he had the best car. That's the reason he swapped teams so often. He chased the best car without loyalty for the teams. He made sure he had the best car and then did his bit to win in it.
Where did you hear/read that?

How did he know what was the best car to sign in with them before the beginning of the season?
I think you are forgetting Fangio was left looking for a drive twice, first when Alfa Romeo drop out of F1 in 52 and second time when Mercedes drop out of racing in 55,
though he did leave Maserati for Mercedes mid season in 1954, and left ferrari at the end of the 56 season to rejoin Maserati for 1957

Also they didn't start the season off with a new car every year back then, more often it was just the previous year's car or a close variant of it till the new one was ready, or they just used the same car for a couple of seasons

2 of his title came driving the "same" car as the year before. 1 of them came driving the same car from 3 years earlier
I think if you look at his whole career then you see it wasn't like he had a crystal ball,

- he won his first title in 1951 in a Alfa Romeo, but had driven a variant of that car the year before Alfa Romeo drop out of F1
- 1953 goes back to Maserati who he drove for back in 1949 finishes 2nd in championship
- 1954 the first 2 races he drives the brand new Maserati 250F then leaves for Mercedes to debut the W196 wins his 2nd title.
- 1955 wins 3rd title driving the W196 again Mercedese drops out of F1
- 1956 wins 4th title driving the Lancia-Ferrari D50 a car that had been around for a couple of years though not completely the same car when it was in the hands of Ferrari, albeit he did race against it for 2 years so I assume he had some knowledge about it
-1957 wins 5th title driving a Maserati 250F a car he defiantly knew

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bdr529
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Abu Dhabi - Yas Marina, 25-27 November

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sorry double post
Last edited by bdr529 on 02 Dec 2016, 22:29, edited 1 time in total.

sosic2121
sosic2121
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Abu Dhabi - Yas Marina, 25-27 November

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Edax wrote: Don't forget Ves won that race by making his tires last longer than anyone else including his teammate. (except maybe Rai as he had one less lap but more pace). The kid can set up a car.
This is simply not true.
He won because RB decided to put him in that position and screwed Ric, because Ferrari's strategy guy is ***, and because Raikkonen never learned how to crash overtake like RB drivers.
I believe Kimi's tires were used. Also, everything max did, kimi did in dirty air and still was faster at the end.

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Abu Dhabi - Yas Marina, 25-27 November

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Manoah2u wrote:oh dear, surprise surprise, more #hatersgonnahate towards Max Verstappen. that's a first with "cartain" member(s) here. jeesh.
Not accepting a rookie driver was the solution for a top team, when he wasn´t (because they solved his main problem before his debut), is hating someone? :wtf: #-o

Fanboys.... :lol:

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Re: 2016 Grand Prix of Abu Dhabi - Yas Marina, 25-27 November

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and why would it be that you feel obligated to think it's you i'm talking about?
it seems the saying goes 'whom who fits the shoe'........

#hatersgonnahate

:D

meanwhile, some nice prizes were given at the FIA prize giving, guess who got 2 and who got none :P

2 for Max, 0 for Sainz :P

Image

there, i'll leave the salt and hurt there.

which actually brings me back to the Abu Dhabi GP, as i wondered where the grey mouse finished.
Did not finish
18. C. Sainz Jr. Toro Rosso +14 Laps

that's why.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"