2017 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 Team - Renault

[Manoah2u]

Team: Scuderia Toro Rosso
Base: Faenza, Italy
Team principal: Franz Tost
Technical director(s): James Key
Website: http://www.scuderiatororosso.com

Race drivers:
26 Daniil Kvyat
55 Carlos Sainz, Jr.

Test drivers : Pierre Gasly

Chassis: STR12
Engine: Renault V6 Turbo

2016 position: 7th (63 pts)



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This thread is to discuss the 2017 Scuderia Toro Rosso F1 TEAM

[turbof1]

Stickied

[Vasconia]

2017 should a better year for TR. First of all I think they will have a good chasis and with a PU which will receive constant updates the evolution through the season should be much better.

On the other hand, we had two drivers who will have their last season here(I think so) so they are eager to show how good they are. Kvyat has done some good races in the last part of the season and I think he will be in a much better shape in 2017.

[ME4ME]

Source: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2016/12/01/2 ... -midfield/

Kvyat definitly has something to prove now. He should also know what happens if he does not perform: he might not make the end of next season if he doesn't challenge Sainz and scores points regularly.

[Vasconia]

https://s13.postimg.org/gehh00txj/Sainz_Kyvat.jpg
Source: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2016/12/01/2 ... -midfield/

Kvyat definitly has something to prove now. He should also know what happens if he does not perform: he might not make the end of next season if he doesn't challenge Sainz and scores points regularly.

Great info ME4ME.

Yes, the pressure is there but I hope that he will come mentally stronger in 2017. I obviousy want Sainz to outpeform him but a good Kvyat would be good for the team, for himself and also for Sainz to show his best.

[Manoah2u]

https://s13.postimg.org/gehh00txj/Sainz_Kyvat.jpg
Source: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2016/12/01/2 ... -midfield/

Kvyat definitly has something to prove now. He should also know what happens if he does not perform: he might not make the end of next season if he doesn't challenge Sainz and scores points regularly.

Well in all fairness to Kvyat, he did step in later in the team by getting demoted from the mothership. that has it's effects on 1) morale, 2) motivation 3) ability due to different car and environment.
Also, kvyat had a lot of bad luck technically too,
all of which are not taken into account in the stats provided (obviously the stats are for the races between Kvyat and Sainz, but the 'other influences' are not taken into account.)

For example, Carlos had zero of those 'stresses' put on him , so it's not really a fair comparison as it never was a fair situation to begin with. One might wonder how Sainz would have reacted to what has been done to Daniil.

I think rather than 'Daniil' having something to prove, i think it's more that Sainz has something to prove.
Even if Daniil has his head back level and let the past be the past, no matter how you put it, he still carries that 'treatment' in the back of his mind, AND one might wonder if he's going to stay in RB house after 2017, whereas Sainz has still a year more to go without too much danger of losing his seat.
Also, as Sainz himself likes to claim so much that he's just as good as Verstappen, and had [lol] just as good a race as Max in brazil [lol], and Verstappen is rated so darn high, and Kvyat not so high [good and fast, but not 'the next boy wonder'], then lets be honest here, Sainz should 'have a walk in the park' against Kvyat.

The reality is though, that if Kvyat actually is level with Sainz, or actually beats him regularly, it's probably end of career for Sainz. After all, what use has RB on two drivers that are the 'exact' same but can't put anywhere anyway becuase the mothership is occupied by their very best. It's still a 'junior program' team so one of them will get ditched for example for Pierre Gasly. Also, if Kvyat beats him fairly consistent, then Sainz' popularity in the field goes down hard, too.
If a team would be eligible to choose between either driver (including RB that is) then Kvyat first of all is the most experienced, also has had his down and came back on his feet, and then he's more marketable due to his Russian roots [Russian sponsors and money].

So really, the pressure is on Carlos, not on Daniil.
And lets be fair, people aren't looking set to 'expect' that much from Daniil anymore next year, so the pressure is off next year for Daniil. If he still makes clumsy mistakes then yeah, he'll probably get replaced by Gasly mid-season.

[Vasconia]

So really, the pressure is on Carlos, not on Daniil.
And lets be fair, people aren't looking set to 'expect' that much from Daniil anymore next year, so the pressure is off next year for Daniil. If he still makes clumsy mistakes then yeah, he'll probably get replaced by Gasly mid-season.

Both have a similar pressure for different reasons. Perhaps Carlos has an extra point of pressure because he needs to beat Kvyat clearly, but come one, Kvyat is a pretty good driver. We should not forget that he got a podium only two races before he was back in TR. The difference between him and Ricciardo was not that big and Daniel has beaten Vestappen several times.

So, under normal circustances both drivers should have a similar pace and extract the 100% of the car. Of course its about who is faster but if both have a very good season I dont see any reason for them to be out of F1 in 2018.

Toro Rosso will be an exciting team to follow with a "mentally recovered" Kyvat and a Sainz eager to confirm his (presumably) deal with Renault in 2018.

[Manoah2u]

Interestingly, i could imagine Kvyat being an interesting choice for Renault too - so one might wonder: Would Renault look at the inter-team battle between Kvyat and Sainz as 'the winner takes Palmer's seat'? Then again, I also could see Valterri there.......i think it's going to be a very interesting 2017.

Is Toro Rosso using full-spec renault engines btw, or 2016-spec?

[ME4ME]

Interestingly, i could imagine Kvyat being an interesting choice for Renault too - so one might wonder: Would Renault look at the inter-team battle between Kvyat and Sainz as 'the winner takes Palmer's seat'? Then again, I also could see Valterri there.......i think it's going to be a very interesting 2017.

Is Toro Rosso using full-spec renault engines btw, or 2016-spec?

Should be 2017 Renault engines, same as RB and Renault works teams.

I think Renault will be very open minded for 2018. A lot of top drivers will be out of contract by then, and we might even see RAI and Alonso leaving, so surely there will be a lot of driver-changes. I don't they Renaults choise will be limited to Toro Rosso. Besides, Sainz has mentioned that Red Bull has an option on him, every year for the forseeable future. Surely that must be the case for Kvyat as well.

[Andres125sx]

Well in all fairness to Kvyat, he did step in later in the team by getting demoted from the mothership. that has it's effects on 1) morale, 2) motivation 3) ability due to different car and environment.
Also, kvyat had a lot of bad luck technically too, all of which are not taken into account in the stats provided (obviously the stats are for the races between Kvyat and Sainz, but the 'other influences' are not taken into account.)

For example, Carlos had zero of those 'stresses' put on him .

But he had some other pressure you´re not taking into account. RBR usually promote one of their STR drivers, and get rid of the other. Once Max was promoted, what do you think Sainz was thinking his future will be?

Not very promising for sure, at lest into RBR so he, equally to Daniil, was suffering some heavy pressure to perform or say goodbye to F1

Also, as Sainz himself likes to claim so much that he's just as good as Verstappen, and had [lol] just as good a race as Max in brazil [lol], and Verstappen is rated so darn high

That´s the question, Vestappen is rated so darn high, and even when Sainz performed pretty similar on same car, he does not receive a half of Max prasing. That must be FRUSTRATING

About Interlagos....

Grid: Max 4th, Sainz 15th
Race: Max 3th, Sainz 6th

Do you really find a lot more praiseworthy going with a RBR from 4th to 3th than it is going with a STR from 15th to 6th?

Ok Max did some awesome passes, but don´t forget he´s driving a RBR (best aerodinamics) under the rain, while Carlos is driving a STR with a dog inside (Ferrari ´15 PU)

The reality is though, that if Kvyat actually is level with Sainz, or actually beats him regularly, it's probably end of career for Sainz.

Same for Kvyat. I think both of them will have extreme pressure next season as any of them underperforming will mean they´re out of F1

[Vasconia]

The reality is though, that if Kvyat actually is level with Sainz, or actually beats him regularly, it's probably end of career for Sainz.

Same for Kvyat. I think both of them will have extreme pressure next season as any of them underperforming will mean they´re out of F1

The only good solution for both will be if everybody has the feeling that they have done a perfect season, having awesome races even if both drivers have a similar pace an points and in the end of the season. Unless it happens this, the winner will have a great chance to continue in 2018 and the "loser" will struggle to find a team.

[eagennyclef]

All they did today was launch the team as Renault. Not the car and not the livery. Bit of a PR gimmick, would have worked much better with something from 2016 aside from the driver lineup

[ME4ME]

But he had some other pressure you´re not taking into account. RBR usually promote one of their STR drivers, and get rid of the other. Once Max was promoted, what do you think Sainz was thinking his future will be?
Not very promising for sure, at lest into RBR so he, equally to Daniil, was suffering some heavy pressure to perform or say goodbye to F1

The peak of that pressure was quickly taken away though. RB/Toro Rosso signed him for 2017 already on June the 29th. That's unusually early, and shows the trust they have in his capabilities.

That´s the question, Vestappen is rated so darn high, and even when Sainz performed pretty similar on same car, he does not receive a half of Max prasing. That must be FRUSTRATING

I think people do rate Sainz highly. Look at the driver ranking at various sites. He makes the top 8 more often than not. He just needs a better car now. Fighting at the front will always earn you more praise, if you have a good race. His time will come if and when Toro Rosso becomes competitive again.

[Jolle]

But he had some other pressure you´re not taking into account. RBR usually promote one of their STR drivers, and get rid of the other. Once Max was promoted, what do you think Sainz was thinking his future will be?
Not very promising for sure, at lest into RBR so he, equally to Daniil, was suffering some heavy pressure to perform or say goodbye to F1

The peak of that pressure was quickly taken away though. RB/Toro Rosso signed him for 2017 already on June the 29th. That's unusually early, and shows the trust they have in his capabilities.

That´s the question, Vestappen is rated so darn high, and even when Sainz performed pretty similar on same car, he does not receive a half of Max prasing. That must be FRUSTRATING

I think people do rate Sainz highly. Look at the driver ranking at various sites. He makes the top 8 more often than not. He just needs a better car now. Fighting at the front will always earn you more praise, if you have a good race. His time will come if and when Toro Rosso becomes competitive again.

RedBull doesn't make its decisions based on public opinion or only watching a few races. They do that on basis of tons of very precise data, development projections and experience.
I looks like, from the outside, that VES, RIC and SAI are pretty close, with a slight advantage for the RBR drivers. VES has as an extra his very steep development curve. For SAI at the moment, he is more then qualified to be in a works team by now but he's kept in STR as an insurance if anything would happen to the RBR drivers. The don't want to be in the same position when Vettel left. Bit like Buttons new role at McLaren.

[ME4ME]

RedBull doesn't make its decisions based on public opinion or only watching a few races. They do that on basis of tons of very precise data, development projections and experience.
I looks like, from the outside, that VES, RIC and SAI are pretty close, with a slight advantage for the RBR drivers. VES has as an extra his very steep development curve. For SAI at the moment, he is more then qualified to be in a works team by now but he's kept in STR as an insurance if anything would happen to the RBR drivers. The don't want to be in the same position when Vettel left. Bit like Buttons new role at McLaren.

Any particular reason for quoting me? Anything you disagreed with? I might miss something here. I do agree with what you're saying.