Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[Joseki]

The infos are about every race from Malaysia to Abu Dhabi but I don't know why it didn't past the race name.

[Roostfactor]

Yes I saw that. I found it interesting about being able to increase TC RPM 20% and still be in limits as needed in Mexico thin air. This clarifies at least that TC was not needed to spin overly fast under normal conditions as was previously widely thought due to possible small compressor.

[godlameroso]

I think they suffered a lot in Mexico, engine power wise.

[Roostfactor]

To start with conclusion, there was not much of an influence. For sure you had to make various adjustments to get there, so initially at the start of the running we encountered quite a few problems, but as a result of applying tuning, there was almost no loss in output.
If I say it's ok it will break down, so I try not to say that much (laughs). rpm of TC is greater than usual by 20%, so. But that's within the range considered/examined/verified at Sakura beforehand so no problem, the engineers were telling.
In terms of PU it has improved quite a lot compared to last year. Especially the turbo setting that has been adjusted to suit this track is functioning well. Fernando told, "here I didn't feel any loss of power at all. it was competitive" for the first time this season. Of course it's not about "exceeding rivals" but merely "able to compete" though, but it was the first time in this season that we didn't get complained by him. But in terms of a car as a whole, we're struggling.

Not according to Hasegawa sp

[PlatinumZealot]

(regarding special PU setting for high altitude environment of 2250m - 760hpa at FP1, normally or near sea level it's around 1,000hpa btw) As soon as FP started, we encountered the issue that (turbo) rpm got too high. If rpm gets too high, waste gates open, and if boost pressure gets too high, blowoff/bypass bulb opens, but what's difficult about it is adjustment.

Confirmation of blow off valve. Remember 2013 when there was discussion on blow off and wastegate. Both confirmed now.

[Speed_03]

A person on reddit said he attended a seminar today held by Andy Cowell ( managing director of AMG high performance powertrain) and among other interesting things, he said that Honda are still not using a second combustion chamber even though Ferrari adopted it in 2015 and Renault in 2016. source: https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comme ... owell_the/

Maybe that was the combustion improvement mentioned earlier which didn't succeed.

[Roostfactor]

Maybe that was the combustion improvement mentioned earlier which didn't succeed.

You are probably correct. Hasegawa also stated they have many iterations of the new pu on the dyno so I'm sure they have some sort of combustion trickery in testing.

[Facts Only]

(regarding special PU setting for high altitude environment of 2250m - 760hpa at FP1, normally or near sea level it's around 1,000hpa btw) As soon as FP started, we encountered the issue that (turbo) rpm got too high. If rpm gets too high, waste gates open, and if boost pressure gets too high, blowoff/bypass bulb opens, but what's difficult about it is adjustment.

Confirmation of blow off valve. Remember 2013 when there was discussion on blow off and wastegate. Both confirmed now.

Hmmm, doesnt bode well for Honda when other PU makers have been using a better technique (than a blow off valve) since 2014 for overboost control.

[Pierce89]

(regarding special PU setting for high altitude environment of 2250m - 760hpa at FP1, normally or near sea level it's around 1,000hpa btw) As soon as FP started, we encountered the issue that (turbo) rpm got too high. If rpm gets too high, waste gates open, and if boost pressure gets too high, blowoff/bypass bulb opens, but what's difficult about it is adjustment.

Confirmation of blow off valve. Remember 2013 when there was discussion on blow off and wastegate. Both confirmed now.

Hmmm, doesnt bode well for Honda when other PU makers have been using a better technique (than a blow off valve) since 2014 for overboost control.

Everyone uses the mguh fr boost control, but I'll bet they all have blow off valves too just for the safety of various components.

[Pierce89]

A person on reddit said he attended a seminar today held by Andy Cowell ( managing director of AMG high performance powertrain) and among other interesting things, he said that Honda are still not using a second combustion chamber even though Ferrari adopted it in 2015 and Renault in 2016. source: https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comme ... owell_the/

Maybe that was the combustion improvement mentioned earlier which didn't succeed.

It's been made clear that Honda is the last to implement TJI.

[NL_Fer]

Offcourse the have a blow off valve. If a driver needs to lift for a second and you want to keep the turbo spinning at high rpm, you need a blow of for the boost between turbine and throttle valve.

The wastegate could be ommited and boostcontrol taken care of by the mgu-h, but (Renault?) tech already said they needed the wastegate, because the mgu-h cannot handle overboost spikes.

[PlatinumZealot]

(regarding special PU setting for high altitude environment of 2250m - 760hpa at FP1, normally or near sea level it's around 1,000hpa btw) As soon as FP started, we encountered the issue that (turbo) rpm got too high. If rpm gets too high, waste gates open, and if boost pressure gets too high, blowoff/bypass bulb opens, but what's difficult about it is adjustment.

Confirmation of blow off valve. Remember 2013 when there was discussion on blow off and wastegate. Both confirmed now.

Hmmm, doesnt bode well for Honda when other PU makers have been using a better technique (than a blow off valve) since 2014 for overboost control.

Well the jury is still out on whether the other engines have blow-off valves. In Honda's case it is a good sign that the Honda compressor is capable of high pressures. On the other side of the coin it could also mean that Honda's turbo inertia is high or the speed control is not as good, so pressure spikes occur.

[PlatinumZealot]

A person on reddit said he attended a seminar today held by Andy Cowell ( managing director of AMG high performance powertrain) and among other interesting things, he said that Honda are still not using a second combustion chamber even though Ferrari adopted it in 2015 and Renault in 2016. source: https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comme ... owell_the/

Maybe that was the combustion improvement mentioned earlier which didn't succeed.

It's been made clear that Honda is the last to implement TJI.

They never did implement TJI. Hasegawa said the engine wasn't ready for it = problems on the dyno with this engine architecture so they left it for 2017. This was discussed somewhere in the middle of the thread can't find it now.

[Brian Coat]

A person on reddit said he attended a seminar today held by Andy Cowell ( managing director of AMG high performance powertrain) and among other interesting things, he said that Honda are still not using a second combustion chamber even though Ferrari adopted it in 2015 and Renault in 2016. source: https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comme ... owell_the/

Maybe that was the combustion improvement mentioned earlier which didn't succeed.

Thanks for your post.

Was the context of the NOx quote, in the Reddit link, the transferability of the lean work to Merc roadgoing gasoline cars? I assume he's not losing much sleep over race car NOx.

[Facts Only]

Offcourse the have a blow off valve. If a driver needs to lift for a second and you want to keep the turbo spinning at high rpm, you need a blow of for the boost between turbine and throttle valve.

The wastegate could be ommited and boostcontrol taken care of by the mgu-h, but (Renault?) tech already said they needed the wastegate, because the mgu-h cannot handle overboost spikes.

No offence but it's not a 90's impreza. There are other ways to control over boost that don't need a blow off valve that wastes energy.