Honda F1 project leader Yusuke Hasegawa has outlined a number of reasons why Honda has been struggling so badly in the beginning of the 2017 Formula One season. He confirmed that lots of problems were not discovered while running on the dynamo meter.
(regarding special PU setting for high altitude environment of 2250m - 760hpa at FP1, normally or near sea level it's around 1,000hpa btw) As soon as FP started, we encountered the issue that (turbo) rpm got too high. If rpm gets too high, waste gates open, and if boost pressure gets too high, blowoff/bypass bulb opens, but what's difficult about it is adjustment.
Confirmation of blow off valve. Remember 2013 when there was discussion on blow off and wastegate. Both confirmed now.
Don't think that's a blow off valve. Probably just an overboost valve which won't be sensitive to throttle input like a traditional blow off valve.
Speed_03 wrote:A person on reddit said he attended a seminar today held by Andy Cowell ( managing director of AMG high performance powertrain) and among other interesting things, he said that Honda are still not using a second combustion chamber even though Ferrari adopted it in 2015 and Renault in 2016. source: https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comme ... owell_the/
Maybe that was the combustion improvement mentioned earlier which didn't succeed.
It's been made clear that Honda is the last to implement TJI.
They never did implement TJI. Hasegawa said the engine wasn't ready for it = problems on the dyno with this engine architecture so they left it for 2017. This was discussed somewhere in the middle of the thread can't find it now.
Yeah that was my point.
“To be able to actually make something is awfully nice”
Bruce McLaren on building his first McLaren racecars, 1970
“I've got to be careful what I say, but possibly to probably Juan would have had a bigger go”
Sir Frank Williams after the 2003 Canadian GP, where Ralf hesitated to pass brother M. Schumacher
P: What parts of the current engine would he like maintaining for 2017?
Y. HASEGAWA: "I believe that we have a very good level in the field of the turbocharger, a good yield. It is not supposed that we change the concept of the system, but in the combustion engine in itself we have to do changes".
P: What parts of the current engine would he like maintaining for 2017?
Y. HASEGAWA: "I believe that we have a very good level in the field of the turbocharger, a good yield. It is not supposed that we change the concept of the system, but in the combustion engine in itself we have to do changes".
(regarding special PU setting for high altitude environment of 2250m - 760hpa at FP1, normally or near sea level it's around 1,000hpa btw) As soon as FP started, we encountered the issue that (turbo) rpm got too high. If rpm gets too high, waste gates open, and if boost pressure gets too high, blowoff/bypass bulb opens, but what's difficult about it is adjustment.
Confirmation of blow off valve. Remember 2013 when there was discussion on blow off and wastegate. Both confirmed now.
Don't think that's a blow off valve. Probably just an overboost valve which won't be sensitive to throttle input like a traditional blow off valve.
I would expect it to operate essentially as a waste gate but on the intake side, it will just bleed excess boost pressure back into the intake.
Not sure why you would need to do this though as traditionally the wastegates are capable of reducing turbine speed such that the boost pressure drops. Perhaps it is linked to their "electric supercharger" mode where they already have the wastegates open? But in this situation you would expect the work done by the MGUh to reduce to modulate pressure rather than dump it.
P: What parts of the current engine would he like maintaining for 2017?
Y. HASEGAWA: "I believe that we have a very good level in the field of the turbocharger, a good yield. It is not supposed that we change the concept of the system, but in the combustion engine in itself we have to do changes".
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Confirmation of blow off valve. Remember 2013 when there was discussion on blow off and wastegate. Both confirmed now.
Don't think that's a blow off valve. Probably just an overboost valve which won't be sensitive to throttle input like a traditional blow off valve.
I would expect it to operate essentially as a waste gate but on the intake side, it will just bleed excess boost pressure back into the intake.
Not sure why you would need to do this though as traditionally the wastegates are capable of reducing turbine speed such that the boost pressure drops. Perhaps it is linked to their "electric supercharger" mode where they already have the wastegates open? But in this situation you would expect the work done by the MGUh to reduce to modulate pressure rather than dump it.
Well overboost valves are used on modified road cars if there's a risk the wastegate can't control or can't stop quick enough an overboost spike. They generally vent to atmosphere.
FPV GTHO wrote:
Don't think that's a blow off valve. Probably just an overboost valve which won't be sensitive to throttle input like a traditional blow off valve.
I would expect it to operate essentially as a waste gate but on the intake side, it will just bleed excess boost pressure back into the intake.
Not sure why you would need to do this though as traditionally the wastegates are capable of reducing turbine speed such that the boost pressure drops. Perhaps it is linked to their "electric supercharger" mode where they already have the wastegates open? But in this situation you would expect the work done by the MGUh to reduce to modulate pressure rather than dump it.
Well overboost valves are used on modified road cars if there's a risk the wastegate can't control or can't stop quick enough an overboost spike. They generally vent to atmosphere.
I have never seen or heard of this being used? When would there be a risk that the wastegate won't control boost pressure?
First off I would like to with everyone a Happy Holiday season.
Mr. GoranF1, why are you directing this statement at me? Are you asking for confirmation? Mr. Alonso is entitled to his opinion and we all know he has never exaggerated or embellished anything in the past. nor has he ever insulted McLaren or Honda.
“If Honda does not race, there is no Honda.”
“Success represents the 1% of your work which results from the 99% that is called failure.”
I wouldn't read much in it, Goran. The article is, first of all, written from an inteview in English, so no first hand info there. And second, it is a very spanish way to speak to say those 100 times things. I am even from the same region than Alonso... and I also speak like that sometimes. All I'd read from that number is that once, in a particular moment, he found himself with 51hp less than a Sauber.
Edit: OK, I over-exaggerate a tiny little weeny bit. It might have been 75.1 hp.
Last edited by hollus on 17 Dec 2016, 16:00, edited 1 time in total.
Rivals, not enemies. (Now paraphrased from A. Newey).
First off I would like to with everyone a Happy Holiday season.
Mr. GoranF1, why are you directing this statement at me? Are you asking for confirmation? Mr. Alonso is entitled to his opinion and we all know he has never exaggerated or embellished anything in the past. nor has he ever insulted McLaren or Honda.
You didn't even read the article yourself, you just went straight into 'I'm going to write garbage about Alonso' mode
He says on the article, We are 100 Hp less but doesn't say from which engine.
Mentions Sauber passing them on race but doesn't say Honda is 100 CV less than Sauber or Ferrari engine.
So you could assume that he refers 100 Hp down on best engine Mercedes 2016 which it is not as bad if you consider how far they were last year and equaling Ferrari engine 2015 in Hp without be able to implement the tokens they wanted on combustion chamber.
So I would not be so pessimistic for next year
](./images/smilies/eusa_wall.gif "Brick wall"){kind=small}
nor has he ever insulted McLaren or Honda.
