Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[Wazari]

Wazari

Alonso says Mclaren Honda had 100hp less than Sauber this year.


http://motor.as.com/motor/2016/12/16/fo ... 03916.html

First off I would like to with everyone a Happy Holiday season.
Mr. GoranF1, why are you directing this statement at me? Are you asking for confirmation? Mr. Alonso is entitled to his opinion and we all know he has never exaggerated or embellished anything in the past. nor has he ever insulted McLaren or Honda.

You didn't even read the article yourself, you just went straight into 'I'm going to write garbage about Alonso' mode

Well I did read the article (translated) several times. Also IMO what I wrote about Mr. Alonso is not garbage. If you want garbage, then PM me. (Pit/garage behavior, post race debriefs, etc.). Piquet, Mansell, Senna, Button, Alonso, all different having been in meetings or consultations with them.

As I mentioned before, I think many would be surprised at the actual peak power differences. And yes, Honda is at the bottom of all the 2016 PU's.

[RedNEO]

First off I would like to with everyone a Happy Holiday season.
Mr. GoranF1, why are you directing this statement at me? Are you asking for confirmation? Mr. Alonso is entitled to his opinion and we all know he has never exaggerated or embellished anything in the past. nor has he ever insulted McLaren or Honda.

You didn't even read the article yourself, you just went straight into 'I'm going to write garbage about Alonso' mode

Well I did read the article (translated) several times. Also IMO what I wrote about Mr. Alonso is not garbage. If you want garbage, then PM me. (Pit/garage behavior, post race debriefs, etc.). Piquet, Mansell, Senna, Button, Alonso, all different having been in meetings or consultations with them.

As I mentioned before, I think many would be surprised at the actual peak power differences. And yes, Honda is at the bottom of all the 2016 PU's.

Alonso wants to win. That's all you need to know. If you give him a crap engine he will tell you about it. If you don't like it then do something else.

[Wazari]

Last time I checked, all drivers want to win. Chassis engineers need driver's input/feedback to do their job. PU engineers do not need driver's input to do our job.

[hemichromis]

Making a mountain out of a mole hill here!

100 is a very round figure, i would read little into it, only that they were down on power.

[Postmoe]

Wazari, don't wory, we don't need any garbage via PM, Alonso is just talking like a spaniard.

We are very much embedded in the metric system. 1 10 100 1000

[dr_cooke]

Wazari

Alonso says Mclaren Honda had 100hp less than Sauber this year.


http://motor.as.com/motor/2016/12/16/fo ... 03916.html

First off I would like to with everyone a Happy Holiday season.
Mr. GoranF1, why are you directing this statement at me? Are you asking for confirmation? Mr. Alonso is entitled to his opinion and we all know he has never exaggerated or embellished anything in the past. nor has he ever insulted McLaren or Honda.

No, he has never insulted McL or Honda in public. You seem to have information we don't, which you'd be happy to share via PM, but not in the Forum.

Coming back to the article, first, it is a summary of a translation made by a journalist. Second, he does not say that his Honda engine had a permanent or even peak 100 HP (or CV) deficit. What he says is that it is no easy to judge from outside whether a driver could have done something more to avoid being overtaken. He says he could well be 100 HP down on power IN THAT PARTICULAR MOMENT and we don't know that from our armchair. I'd bet he is thinking in a particular overtake he suffered when he says that. You have access to all data, look for a Sauber on ALO overtake (there were not so many) and see if he had full power in that particular moment, or was he fuel saving, or nursing, or not able to deploy...

[GoranF1]

Wazari

Alonso says Mclaren Honda had 100hp less than Sauber this year.


http://motor.as.com/motor/2016/12/16/fo ... 03916.html

First off I would like to with everyone a Happy Holiday season.
Mr. GoranF1, why are you directing this statement at me? Are you asking for confirmation? Mr. Alonso is entitled to his opinion and we all know he has never exaggerated or embellished anything in the past. nor has he ever insulted McLaren or Honda.

Mr. Wazari

Alonso is telling the truth. Honda was trying to be futuristic, different god knows what and the truth is 2+ seconds gap comes 80-90% from terrible Honda PU.
Car isnt perfect but engine sucks.
I am sure that affected Honda road car sell atleast a bit.

Honda has all the money in the world and yet in F1 they didnt do anything since 1992.

I hope thing change in 2017 and Honda finnaly does a decent PU.

[namao]

Wazari, don't wory, we don't need any garbage via PM, Alonso is just talking like a spaniard.

We are very much embedded in the metric system. 1 10 100 1000

Nice post. Excellent. Brilliant. Astonishing. Too much wisdom.

[namao]

Wazari, don't wory, we don't need any garbage via PM, Alonso is just talking like a spaniard.

We are very much embedded in the metric system. 1 10 100 1000

Nice post. Excellent. Brilliant. Astonishing. Too much wisdom.

PS: ALO is saying what all the press, drivers, experts thinks: Honda PU is the worst one. That's the reality. Hurts but reality.

[Joseki]

I think Fernando has all the rights to be frustrated, he was promised much more and the best he achieved in two years is a 5th place. He scored pretty much all the points McLaren has in the championship and he most of the time saved the team from terrible results.
He's wasting his talent at the moment. I also believe Honda knew that Fernando is a fiery guy, so I don't think it's unexpected that he goes out in public saying that Honda is "100 hp behind" (which it's just a common phrase also here in Italy).
Honda is improving and everyone knows it, if they are not happy with Alonso just put Matsushita in his place.

I personally believe that it's pretty useless arguing about Fernando's character now, especially since he's been much more silent with the press this year.

EDIT: The original words:

"Maybe a Sauber overtakes you, and everyone cheers a fantastic overtake, but we have maybe 100 horsepower less. It’s not that you forgot to drive, it’s just there are situations that are out of our control."

It's pretty general and doesn't mean "Honda it's 100 hp behind".

EDIT2 he also said:

" Where does your motivation stand going into 2017?
It’s high. This year is different from last year – the motivation is higher because there are expectations for next year, the rules change, which will mix things a little bit. There is the progress that Honda made this year, which is very positive and gives me confidence. I’m really looking forward to Australia in March. The hope is more real."

[Postmoe]

Wazari, don't wory, we don't need any garbage via PM, Alonso is just talking like a spaniard.

We are very much embedded in the metric system. 1 10 100 1000

Nice post. Excellent. Brilliant. Astonishing. Too much wisdom.

it is indeed an excelent post, I'm glad you could appreciate it.

[NL_Fer]

But if Honda PU is so mediocre, why was Alonso flying this year in most power tracks and horrible on Monza?

[Andres125sx]

Wazari

Alonso says Mclaren Honda had 100hp less than Sauber this year.


http://motor.as.com/motor/2016/12/16/fo ... 03916.html

First off I would like to with everyone a Happy Holiday season.
Mr. GoranF1, why are you directing this statement at me? Are you asking for confirmation? Mr. Alonso is entitled to his opinion and we all know he has never exaggerated or embellished anything in the past. nor has he ever insulted McLaren or Honda.

Sorry but this time I agree with RedNeo, you didn´t read the article, or you just had a bad day and bashed Alonso with no reason.

What he´s saying is just how difficult is for fans to notice what´s really happening on track, and he uses an example to illustrated, of a Sauber overtaking him, maybe because he´s 100bhp down on power. He´s not saying Honda is 100bhp down on power, he´s saying at some particular moment he might be down on power, for example on that race where he had a problem with the PU and had to race with a conservative PU mapping, but people don´t know this, they only see a Sauber overtaking McHonda and usually think Alonso is finished as a driver when in reality no driver could have done anything to stop that overtake because his car had some problem


But I guess people is too sensitive with this debate about the Honda PU, that´s all.

BTW, when has Alonso insulted McHonda? If you´re refering to the GP2 engine comment, showing his frustration about a PU wich does not perform at all but also break apart constantly can´t be considered an insult, but a realistic description. Heck not even that, GP2 engines don´t break apart as frequently as the Honda 2015 PU

I know it´s rude, but when you decide to compete at the highest level, and then do not perform at the highest level, you must be prepared to take criticism, because you´ll get it. And it doesn´t matter if you´re Honda in 2015, Vettel in 2014, or Ferrari in 2014, anyone not performing at the expected level will be strongly criticized.

[godlameroso]

No one is born perfectly knowing how to do something, let alone power units as complex as these. Mercedes started in 2012! Ferrari's first take on the power unit, by people who pride themselves on making power plants was a pathetic showing. Renault had to go backwards to go forwards. No one has been without teething issues save for the manufacturer with a 2 year head start.

The power unit they introduced in 2015 would have been better suited for 2014, in other words they've been digging themselves out of a hole. I completely expected this to happen, and it was a bold move. Instead of bashing, realize the truth, given where they started and where they're at now is night and day.

Where other manufacturers gain .7 seconds from the power unit each season, Honda has gained 2 seconds, and they expect a similar step forward next year.

I guess I'm biased because I have a bunch of Hondas, I still think they're going to pleasantly surprise people in 2017. I've seen how they work in moto gp, I've seen the improvements they've made in super gt this year. Even the Indy car engine is improving.

Enjoy your holidays we can bitch and moan in late February when we prematurely judge cars during winter testing.

[apple64]

As I mentioned before, I think many would be surprised at the actual peak power differences. And yes, Honda is at the bottom of all the 2016 PU's.

I am not an engine expert nor an aero expert but I have two questions as a F1 fan.

McLaren switched its aero philosophy in order to have a car with less maximum downforce but more "usable" downforce. Can we say that Honda has less than others but similar nevertheless peak power and the problem is drivability and fuel consumption? So, Honda has to make their engine power more... usable?

Even with McLaren's known problem of rear suspension in mind, turn exits are a major concern for Honda?