F1 Aerodynamicist: Cranfield University: Aerospace Dynamics vs Advanced Motorsport Engineering

[Dipesh1995]

Hi, I'm student at Loughborough University studying a integrated Masters in Automotive Engineering (MEng). I'm thinking of studying either one of the following post-graduate Masters courses at Cranfield University once I've completed my Auto Eng degree: Aerospace Dynamics or Advanced Motorsport Engineering.
Considering my career goal is to become an F1 aerodynamicist, which course do people reckon would be more appropriate?
I'm leaning towards Aerospace Dynamics but considering Advanced Motorsport Engineering is more F1 based and also has some aero modules albeit not as many, I'm a bit unsure as to what to do

Here are the links to the course specs:

Advanced Motorsport Engineering:
https://www.cranfield.ac.uk/~/media/fil ... chure.ashx

Aerospace Dynamics:
https://www.cranfield.ac.uk/~/media/fil ... chure.ashx

[Vyssion]

Hi, I'm student at Loughborough University studying a integrated Masters in Automotive Engineering (MEng). I'm thinking of studying either one of the following post-graduate Masters courses at Cranfield University once I've completed my Auto Eng degree: Aerospace Dynamics or Advanced Motorsport Engineering.
Considering my career goal is to become an F1 aerodynamicist, which course do people reckon would be more appropriate?
I'm leaning towards Aerospace Dynamics but considering Advanced Motorsport Engineering is more F1 based and also has some aero modules albeit not as many, I'm a bit unsure as to what to do

Here are the links to the course specs:

Advanced Motorsport Engineering:
https://www.cranfield.ac.uk/~/media/fil ... chure.ashx

Aerospace Dynamics:
https://www.cranfield.ac.uk/~/media/fil ... chure.ashx

I sat around googling "Masters of Race" one arvo in Australia and came across the University of Southampton's "MSc Race Car Aerodynamics". I applied and got it and completed it a little over a year ago. Its a one year masters where you do 2 projects (one individual and one group) along with about 6 core modules which cover CFD and Wind Tunnel usage within subjects that look specifically into how these things relate to F1. For example, one unit is called "Race Car Aerodynamics" and the entire thing looks at F1 aero and how it works with a coursework project involving going into the RJ Mitchell Wind Tunnel on site and using an old Honda F1 car as a tester.

You will be thrown in the deep end, and they only take 8 people yearly, which makes things tricky.... not to mention, it cost me £18,000 unfront (Aussie doesnt qualify me for student help) and all 8 of us were "international students"..... no comment there.....

But if you can get it, it is a very well known and respected degree within the F1 community and the university is known for its high calibre of engineering students (dunno why tbh... its just the same as any uni I've been to) which comes in handy when applying for F1 jobs. Every year they also have about 4-6 teams come to the university and give a talk trying to attract new talent - so you will get exposed to some of the people in the team much more so than I could've dreamed living in Australia.

That being said, they market it as a "golden ticket into F1" on their website... it is NOT at all... It took me over 200 applications before I got my F1 job and I am the only one of the 8 who is working for a team at the moment. A few did PhDs, one works for a CFD company in Belgium, and the others are doing jobs ranging from a programmer in a bank to a run-of-the-mill engineer at a desk all day.

If you need any help or have some questions, feel free to ask me, and good luck!!

[krisfx]

It doesn't matter.

I didn't do a Master's at all, in fact I didn't even START A-Level study. I just did a degree. It doesn't matter where you go, just get good marks, enjoy it and then get some real world experience, as it's 10x more important in my opinion!

[Greg Locock]

"It took me over 200 applications before I got my F1 job and I am the only one of the 8 who is working for a team at the moment. "

and there you have it. This post should be copied to every "I wanna join an F1 team and I'm going to do it with a Motorsports masters" thread.

[Jersey Tom]

Bear in mind you may not like actually working in pro racing. Set yourself up to have a broad range of possibilities after school.

[miqi23]

If you are aiming to become an F1 Aerodynamicist go straight for the Aerospace Dynamics course with Aerodynamics as your main option at Cranfield and do not bother with the Motorsport Engineering course.

Do something relevant in your final year project at Loughborough and if I were you I would do a BEng(Hons) instead and go for the MSc at Cranfield. Why do an MEng and an MSc afterwards but its up to you?

Once you have finished your MSc and while you were there you would have hopefully done something interesting in your major project which would stand out when you start applying for Junior Aero jobs.

You should at least get called for an interview and what happens there would decide whether you will get the job or not. Good luck.

[PlatinumZealot]

I sat around googling "Masters of Race" one arvo in Australia and came across the University of Southampton's "MSc Race Car Aerodynamics". I applied and got it and completed it a little over a year ago. Its a one year masters where you do 2 projects (one individual and one group) along with about 6 core modules which cover CFD and Wind Tunnel usage within subjects that look specifically into how these things relate to F1. For example, one unit is called "Race Car Aerodynamics" and the entire thing looks at F1 aero and how it works with a coursework project involving going into the RJ Mitchell Wind Tunnel on site and using an old Honda F1 car as a tester.

You will be thrown in the deep end, and they only take 8 people yearly, which makes things tricky.... not to mention, it cost me £18,000 unfront (Aussie doesnt qualify me for student help) and all 8 of us were "international students"..... no comment there.....

But if you can get it, it is a very well known and respected degree within the F1 community and the university is known for its high calibre of engineering students (dunno why tbh... its just the same as any uni I've been to) which comes in handy when applying for F1 jobs. Every year they also have about 4-6 teams come to the university and give a talk trying to attract new talent - so you will get exposed to some of the people in the team much more so than I could've dreamed living in Australia.

That being said, they market it as a "golden ticket into F1" on their website... it is NOT at all... It took me over 200 applications before I got my F1 job and I am the only one of the 8 who is working for a team at the moment. A few did PhDs, one works for a CFD company in Belgium, and the others are doing jobs ranging from a programmer in a bank to a run-of-the-mill engineer at a desk all day.

If you need any help or have some questions, feel free to ask me, and good luck!!

Was it all worth it? Any thoughts ever cross your mind of doing something else?
And are your immediate co-workers of similar qualification?

[Vyssion]

I sat around googling "Masters of Race" one arvo in Australia and came across the University of Southampton's "MSc Race Car Aerodynamics". I applied and got it and completed it a little over a year ago. Its a one year masters where you do 2 projects (one individual and one group) along with about 6 core modules which cover CFD and Wind Tunnel usage within subjects that look specifically into how these things relate to F1. For example, one unit is called "Race Car Aerodynamics" and the entire thing looks at F1 aero and how it works with a coursework project involving going into the RJ Mitchell Wind Tunnel on site and using an old Honda F1 car as a tester.

You will be thrown in the deep end, and they only take 8 people yearly, which makes things tricky.... not to mention, it cost me £18,000 unfront (Aussie doesnt qualify me for student help) and all 8 of us were "international students"..... no comment there.....

But if you can get it, it is a very well known and respected degree within the F1 community and the university is known for its high calibre of engineering students (dunno why tbh... its just the same as any uni I've been to) which comes in handy when applying for F1 jobs. Every year they also have about 4-6 teams come to the university and give a talk trying to attract new talent - so you will get exposed to some of the people in the team much more so than I could've dreamed living in Australia.

That being said, they market it as a "golden ticket into F1" on their website... it is NOT at all... It took me over 200 applications before I got my F1 job and I am the only one of the 8 who is working for a team at the moment. A few did PhDs, one works for a CFD company in Belgium, and the others are doing jobs ranging from a programmer in a bank to a run-of-the-mill engineer at a desk all day.

If you need any help or have some questions, feel free to ask me, and good luck!!

Was it all worth it? Any thoughts ever cross your mind of doing something else?
And are your immediate co-workers of similar qualification?

To be honest mate, all the degree offered me was a unique name... "Masters of Race Car Aerodynamics" stands out more than "Masters in Aerospace Engineering" you know?
But all I was asked when I was interviewed was whether I got a 1st class honours (and that was by the HR rep there - not the technical director or operations manager who were also there)... Beyond that, I was just asked to tell them about my projects which I did and answer some questions about specific technical things.

When you get to an interview stage, most of the time it is because, at least on paper, you fit what they are looking for... beyond that, they need to check youre not lying about what your CV claims, but it's mostly to see whether you would for the team dynamic and whether you are an asshole or not

Other co-workers are aerospace engineering master graduates, but there are also some people I know who have a pure physics masters as well... Its not about the degree - experience is key, and if you can make whatever piece of cheap paper you have that says youre good at something appear like you can do the job they want, they will get you on board... All I had was a fancy name that made me stand out a little bit

[Dipesh1995]

Thanks for replies guys. Apologies for not replying for a few months, I couldn't due to various uncertainties.

In the end, I decided to pursue an entirely different route to one I had initially chosen and tried to get a year's worth of experience in an F1 team known as a "placement" instead of doing a second Masters. I thought relevant experience would be more valuable and desirable than spending an extra year sitting in lecture theatres. The placement would be part of my studies so I would spend 1 year on a placement before returning back to university to complete my final year.

I was fortunate enough to obtain an interview for a placement as a junior aerodynamicist with Dr Guru Johl at Sahara Force India. Dr Guru Johl was a former PhD student of my personal tutor (Professor Martin Passmore) at Loughborough University (you can view Dr Guru's PhD thesis on in-draft wind tunnels here: http://dspace.lboro.ac.uk/dspace-jspui/ ... 0-Johl.pdf). Unfortunately, I was not successful on that occasion for a 1 year placement due to Force India being a small team and the consequences of that as they struggle to create positions but I'm still in the running for a summer placement instead.

Therefore, I currently do not have a 1 year placement which goes against my plan however I have been advised by personal tutor not to "waste my time" on a second Masters and that obtaining a PhD would be a better use of time even if it means spending an extra 3 years after graduation i.e following the footsteps of Dr Guru Johl.

I may be thinking a bit too far ahead (I've still got to finish my third year and start my final year) but I've started to realise how tough it is trying to get into F1

[Vyssion]

Therefore, I currently do not have a 1 year placement which goes against my plan however I have been advised by personal tutor not to "waste my time" on a second Masters and that obtaining a PhD would be a better use of time even if it means spending an extra 3 years after graduation i.e following the footsteps of Dr Guru Johl.

I may be thinking a bit too far ahead (I've still got to finish my third year and start my final year) but I've started to realise how tough it is trying to get into F1

One thing that I would say then mate, is to make sure that you PhD has DIRECT RELEVANCE to the job that you want to be doing in an F1 team. If it doesn't, then you may find that your PhD only shows that you can stay focused on a topic for 3-4 years instead of it potentially showcasing that focus as a reason they should hire you due to it being "similar" (not necessarily identical) to something that an F1 team does. Good luck, either way!!